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Thread: Patriots D

  1. #46
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    Re: Patriots D



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Yea, but Pitta sees maybe a handful of snaps per game. Miller is out there on almost every snap. Miller is also a hell of a blocker.
    I was comparing talent on the field, not how they may be (mis)managed by the coaching staff. I think Pitta could have had a much better game last week versus the Texans if the scheme was better.

    I still don't see Miller as that much better than Dixon/Pitta. Yes, Dixon drops the ball, but he also has made some tough catches in traffic, and can stretch the field (Miller cannot). EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I didn't see Dixon's name on this list, but I did see Miller's: http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/l...rank=232&year=

    My original point: I think the Ravens offense and the Steelers offense is comparable.
    Last edited by PeterB58; 01-18-2012 at 11:54 AM.




  2. #47

    Re: Patriots D

    Ravens have been on of the best in the NFL at shutting down Tight Ends if fantasy stats mean anything. The Pats won the last game in OT by 3 if I recall, and this is a better Ravens team in all phases. The Pats O looks good, but their defense has been streaky.

    I expect the Pats D to be better than advertised, but I don't think the Pats O is gonna light up the Ravens either. The Pats were beat by a Steelers team the Ravens beat twice. Assuming the Pats D sells out to stop Ray Rice as expected, does the Pats secondary really have it in them to contain Boldin, Smith, Pitta and Dickson? Ravens receivers against Pats CBs is the best matchup for the Ravens imo. The Pats allowed 4.6 yds/carry on the ground, 8th worst in the league... and with a 25 attempts/game average so its not like teams were giving up on the run to keep up - they're going to make Rice their focus. Smith and Boldin are going to see quite a bit of one on one if the Pats fail to jump out to a big lead... and the Pats pass rush was only average before Carter went out.

    Let's not forget the Ravens have been playing top-tier teams all season and won the best division in the NFL. Flacco has been facing good defensive teams. The Pats meanwhile have been running over lesser competition all season. The talk has been about how they earned the #1 seed without beating a team that finished above .500 all season. I honestly think the game will come down to turnovers, and I give the Pats the edge only because the game is in Foxborough... but the team with the best chance to go into Foxborough and win would be the Ravens imo.
    Last edited by DvlsAdvc8; 01-18-2012 at 12:20 PM.




  3. #48

    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Mark Anderson is a decent pass rusher. He was with the Bears a few seasons ago. They also have Jermaine Cunningham and Rob Ninkovich (sp?). Cunningham came on strong last year, but hasn't had nearly the same success this season. Ninkovich is a guy they need to watch out for. IMO he's one of the more underrated linebackers in the NFL. He does a lot of things really well and he can rush the passer as a stand up OLB and a hands in the dirt DE. Obviously Jerrod Mayo and Brandon Spikes are solid inside linebackers as well.

    The Patriots' issues are all in the secondary. They got rid of Brandon Merriweather, which was smart and dumb all at the same time because they didn't have anyone who could replace him. They've had a mix-n-match unit at safety and it's really exposed them a lot in the middle of the field. Patrick Chung is a decent player, but he can't do it by himself and after an explosive rookie season cornerback Devin McCourty has come back down to earth a bit and isn't having nearly as dominant of a season as he did last year. Kyle Arrington had a bunch of INT's, but he gave up a lot of plays as well.

    Vince Wilfork is still Vince Wilfork and is a hoss, but other than him the Patriots really don't have any big DT's or DE's that are any good.

    Probably the biggest issue for the Pats was them switching schemes from the 3-4 last year to a base 4-3 this year with variances and nickel defenses. It hasn't worked well for them at all.
    Agree with all this with three minor clarifications:

    1. Jermaine Cunningham (who really humiliated Michael Oher last year in what was unquestionably the best game of Cunningham's career) is on IR, so he will not get a chance to test Oher again (not that Cunningham had been anything to fear this season before going on IR).

    2. Kyle Love is another big-bodied DL. As another poster pointed out, he is nothing to be afraid of. But he is a pretty solid player.

    3. Sterling Moore is probably their best cover CB right now. The fact that someone can come in off the street late in the season and become the best CB for a playoff team underscores the mess that has been the Patriots defensive backfield this year.




  4. #49
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    Re: Patriots D

    Oher is RT this year, not LT like last year. Most pass rushers took his lunch money when he was LT, lol.




  5. #50

    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan View Post
    How bad is the Patriots defense compared to the weaker defenses the Ravens faced this year:

    Rushing Yards per Attempt:
    18. Colts 4.3
    24. Patriots 4.6
    28. Rams 4.8

    Net Passing Yards per Attempts
    17. Rams 6.3
    27. Colts 7.0
    29. Patriots 7.1

    Football Outsiders ranks them as the #30 defense with the #28 rushing and #28 passing D's (Colts are 27/27/24 and Rams 20/15/29)

    They do have 40 sacks, though Andre Carter accounted for 10 of them. I know Belichick always does a good job of altering the game plan to the opponent but I was surprised to see that the Patriots have a worse defense than the Colts.
    The problem with your analysis is scoring.

    Pats allow 411yds per game during the regular season, but only allow 21pts per game. So out of the 5 potential scoring drives (80yd drive/411yds = 5), teams only scored 3 times. Why?

    Turnovers. Pats are +17 Third most in the NFL only behind the niners and packers.

    Despite the hand-wringing, Joe played a top 5 defense and didn't turnover the football (though he and Rice fumbled once each, the Ravens recovered).

    If Joe plays in a similar manner this weekend, the Pats lose.
    After 5 years of early exits, the journey is finally complete.




  6. #51

    Re: Patriots D

    This is the fastest & youngest the pats D has been in more than a decade. Not sure where you get the idea they're slow beyond the size of the DL & LB's.

    Pats have been playing more zone than man for years, hence the reason BB refuses to pay top dollar for corners.

    If they are so slow, how'd they hold Rice to 88yds last year? How do they seem to gang tackle most of the time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    The pats zone coverage in the secondary. Reason, they are so slow and inexperienced at LB and DB. Playing zone without being to generate a pass rush is a bad combination. Plus, Pats haven't played many good offenses. Patriots might have the slowest Dline in football, Rice should have an easy time on stretch runs or cutbacks. Ravens should be able to do what they want on offense on the ground or air.




  7. #52
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    Re: Patriots D

    LBs Mayo and Spikes and Ninkovich are decent players but "fast" is not a word that pops to mind. Spikes is especially slow.




  8. #53
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    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by SC_Raven_Fan View Post
    The problem with your analysis is scoring.

    Pats allow 411yds per game during the regular season, but only allow 21pts per game. So out of the 5 potential scoring drives (80yd drive/411yds = 5), teams only scored 3 times. Why?

    Turnovers. Pats are +17 Third most in the NFL only behind the niners and packers.

    Despite the hand-wringing, Joe played a top 5 defense and didn't turnover the football (though he and Rice fumbled once each, the Ravens recovered).

    If Joe plays in a similar manner this weekend, the Pats lose.
    That is a very interesting point. The Packers and the Patriots really have the overall model. They get ahead and then create turnovers when the other team is pressing to catch up. The difference with the Pats is they don't seem to mind being down early and having to play catch up themselves. Instead of having to play with a lead the whole game the Pats are able to get that lead in the 2nd quarter or even 2nd half.

    Getting ahead and staying ahead once they get that lead will be essential for the Ravens. That's exactly what worked for them last week and every win all they way back to the Thanksgiving game against the 49ers which was tied at 6-6 going into the 4th Quarter. If the Ravens get 2 scores down and start pressing they're going to turn the ball over and lose.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  9. #54

    Re: Patriots D

    On offense, i think this is Joe's game to shine and I think he can do it.
    Way Down South in New Orleans




  10. #55

    Re: Patriots D

    Mayo can go sideline to sideline effectively. Spikes is slow and is a liability in coverage. Fletcher is usually on the field in passing situations. Ninkovich is the edge rusher. Wouldn't say he's 'fast', but his 1st step is quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teavo View Post
    LBs Mayo and Spikes and Ninkovich are decent players but "fast" is not a word that pops to mind. Spikes is especially slow.




  11. #56

    Re: Patriots D

    Shutting down Gronk and Hernandez has not been done thus far. They are coming into their own and have improved ddrasticly since the begining of the season.


    Quote Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8 View Post
    Ravens have been on of the best in the NFL at shutting down Tight Ends if fantasy stats mean anything. The Pats won the last game in OT by 3 if I recall, and this is a better Ravens team in all phases. The Pats O looks good, but their defense has been streaky.

    I expect the Pats D to be better than advertised, but I don't think the Pats O is gonna light up the Ravens either. The Pats were beat by a Steelers team the Ravens beat twice. Assuming the Pats D sells out to stop Ray Rice as expected, does the Pats secondary really have it in them to contain Boldin, Smith, Pitta and Dickson? Ravens receivers against Pats CBs is the best matchup for the Ravens imo. The Pats allowed 4.6 yds/carry on the ground, 8th worst in the league... and with a 25 attempts/game average so its not like teams were giving up on the run to keep up - they're going to make Rice their focus. Smith and Boldin are going to see quite a bit of one on one if the Pats fail to jump out to a big lead... and the Pats pass rush was only average before Carter went out.

    Let's not forget the Ravens have been playing top-tier teams all season and won the best division in the NFL. Flacco has been facing good defensive teams. The Pats meanwhile have been running over lesser competition all season. The talk has been about how they earned the #1 seed without beating a team that finished above .500 all season. I honestly think the game will come down to turnovers, and I give the Pats the edge only because the game is in Foxborough... but the team with the best chance to go into Foxborough and win would be the Ravens imo.




  12. #57

    Re: Patriots D

    The last time the Pats played the Ravens Welker was not in the game (out for season) and of course Gronk and Hernandez where in college. This is a completely different situation.




  13. #58
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    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by Ks1102 View Post
    The last time the Pats played the Ravens Welker was not in the game (out for season) and of course Gronk and Hernandez where in college. This is a completely different situation.
    You may want to do a little research on this.




  14. #59
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    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by Ks1102 View Post
    The last time the Pats played the Ravens Welker was not in the game (out for season) and of course Gronk and Hernandez where in college. This is a completely different situation.
    It's correct that Welker, Gronk and Hernandez did not play in the playoff game in '09 but they did have a guy named Randy Moss. The Ravens corners in that game were Dominique Foxworth, Chris Carr (when he was still mostly a punt returner), Frank Walker and Corey Ivy.




  15. #60

    Re: Patriots D

    Problem then is Brady had not much options in the short pass game then. He had to wait for Moss to go down field. That gave the Ravens time to get to Brady. Problem for the Ravens now ( I think) is that Brady will not have to wait any more. With Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez he can throw almost instantly and who is going to cover thos three guys? I also did not add Branch or even Ocho to that list. I am very curious to see what the Ravens attempt to do with this match up. To say its challenging is an understatement. This offence was in its infantcy early in the season, and evolving. Was not the same when the Stoolers came to town.

    QUOTE=chicagoravensfan;405709]It's correct that Welker, Gronk and Hernandez did not play in the playoff game in '09 but they did have a guy named Randy Moss. The Ravens corners in that game were Dominique Foxworth, Chris Carr (when he was still mostly a punt returner), Frank Walker and Corey Ivy.[/QUOTE]




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