If Gurode isn't retained, Jamaal Jackson may be an option...

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 09:59 AM

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...he_Eagles.html

Jackson, who lost his starting job in 2011 after working to recover from two injury-marred years, refused to criticize the Eagles, but he and his agent have made it clear that they expect him to be on the market looking for work elsewhere this offseason.

He is 31 years old.

Obviously not my ideal #1 option, but potentially not a bad option.

**JAB1985** · 01-09-2012, 10:08 AM

Gurode still being the number 1 if Birk retires? Im sure hed come a little cheaper than Gurode but probably not much more. You see them going with a stopgap at Center over letting a rookie start?

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

Gurode still being the number 1 if Birk retires? Im sure hed come a little cheaper than Gurode but probably not much more. You see them going with a stopgap at Center over letting a rookie start?

Depends on what shakes out in the draft.

Center/guard is one of those positions where the value is there, but no one really wants to jump on it "too" high. Ya know? For example, both the Steelers and Dolphins used fairly high picks on the Pouncey twins and neither have really been overly impressive, although they've been solid. Then again, the Jets a few years ago used a 1st rounder on Nick Mangold and he's easily the best overall center in the NFL right now, so the value is there and he was able to step in his rookie year and play at a high level.

In the draft there are 3 guys who could make cases for being 1st/2nd round picks: Peter Konz out of Wisconsin, Mike Brewster out of Ohio State, and Ben Jones out of Georgia. There are a couple of 2nd tier guys like William Vlachos out of Alabama, Philip Blake out of Baylor, David Molk out of Michigan, and Quinton Saulsberry out of Mississippi State. A lot of folks like Vlachos, but he's 6'1" and about 290lbs. How would he deal with Casey Hampton? How would Flacco (who is 6'6" and change) deal with taking snaps from a guy who is more than 5 inches shorter than him?

Those are things to think about.

David Molk is another one who is going to have a tough time. He's 285lbs, but he's a good player. Do you take a player like that and bulk them up behind a guy like Gurode or Jackson? I don't have a good answer for that.

Frankly, I think that they should worry about re-signing Grubbs and getting better at LT because with Grubbs and Yanda at guard, they can help out the center if he's a rookie or a so-so free agent.

**bmorecareful** · 01-10-2012, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Depends on what shakes out in the draft.

Center/guard is one of those positions where the value is there, but no one really wants to jump on it "too" high. Ya know? For example, both the Steelers and Dolphins used fairly high picks on the Pouncey twins and neither have really been overly impressive, although they've been solid. Then again, the Jets a few years ago used a 1st rounder on Nick Mangold and he's easily the best overall center in the NFL right now, so the value is there and he was able to step in his rookie year and play at a high level.

In the draft there are 3 guys who could make cases for being 1st/2nd round picks: Peter Konz out of Wisconsin, Mike Brewster out of Ohio State, and Ben Jones out of Georgia. There are a couple of 2nd tier guys like William Vlachos out of Alabama, Philip Blake out of Baylor, David Molk out of Michigan, and Quinton Saulsberry out of Mississippi State. A lot of folks like Vlachos, but he's 6'1" and about 290lbs. How would he deal with Casey Hampton? How would Flacco (who is 6'6" and change) deal with taking snaps from a guy who is more than 5 inches shorter than him?

Those are things to think about.

David Molk is another one who is going to have a tough time. He's 285lbs, but he's a good player. Do you take a player like that and bulk them up behind a guy like Gurode or Jackson? I don't have a good answer for that.

Frankly, I think that they should worry about re-signing Grubbs and getting better at LT because with Grubbs and Yanda at guard, they can help out the center if he's a rookie or a so-so free agent.

I am one of those people who is very high on Vlachos. He may only be 6'1 295 or thereabouts, but size is much less important at the C position than technique and intelligence. A lot of great centers in the league have been sub-300 guys, including Jeff Saturday, Olin Kreutz, etc. In fact, our own Matt Birk is listed at 6'4 309, and that is actually a lower BMI than Vlachos.

In the Ravens' system you are going to see the center try to get to the second level via combo blocks moreso than going head-up against a DT anyway. There are only a few centers in the league that really can overpower big DTs and NTs one-on-one, and Matt Birk already is not (and never was) one of them. I think Vlachos fits the scheme well, particularly if we continue to move to zone-blocking principles.

He's not my favorite center in the class, but he's a good one and he looks like an Ozzie pick. He could probably be had in the 3rd round. I dunno if you ask him to start day 1, but IMO I think the Ravens should consider giving Birk a 1-year deal (if he wants to come back) AND drafting a guy like Vlachos or Mike Brewster (Brewster is probably in the 2nd or even 3rd as well at this point after his bad year) to serve as his understudy. I don't know how cheap Birk will be, but I think he will accept a 1-year deal with a small bonus or no bonus while I think Gurode will want a multi-year deal with guarantees. I think Birk is also still playing at a very high level, higher than Gurode is capable of, and the continuity is extremely valuable from a scheme perspective.

**wickedsolo** · 01-10-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I am one of those people who is very high on Vlachos. He may only be 6'1 295 or thereabouts, but size is much less important at the C position than technique and intelligence. A lot of great centers in the league have been sub-300 guys, including Jeff Saturday, Olin Kreutz, etc. In fact, our own Matt Birk is listed at 6'4 309, and that is actually a lower BMI than Vlachos.

In the Ravens' system you are going to see the center try to get to the second level via combo blocks moreso than going head-up against a DT anyway. There are only a few centers in the league that really can overpower big DTs and NTs one-on-one, and Matt Birk already is not (and never was) one of them. I think Vlachos fits the scheme well, particularly if we continue to move to zone-blocking principles.

He's not my favorite center in the class, but he's a good one and he looks like an Ozzie pick. He could probably be had in the 3rd round. I dunno if you ask him to start day 1, but IMO I think the Ravens should consider giving Birk a 1-year deal (if he wants to come back) AND drafting a guy like Vlachos or Mike Brewster (Brewster is probably in the 2nd or even 3rd as well at this point after his bad year) to serve as his understudy. I don't know how cheap Birk will be, but I think he will accept a 1-year deal with a small bonus or no bonus while I think Gurode will want a multi-year deal with guarantees. I think Birk is also still playing at a very high level, higher than Gurode is capable of, and the continuity is extremely valuable from a scheme perspective.

I think Vlachos brings a lot of value as a run blocker, but again, you have to consider the fact that Flacco is 5 inches taller than him and taking a direct snap from Vlachos might impede on Flacco's ability to smoothly transition from snap and into his drop steps. It's a legitimate concern. That is one of the reasons why Birk was so desirable as a center prospect at the time. Cam likes taller centers for this very reason.

In the 4th or 5th round I think Vlachos is a steal, but in the 2nd or 3rd I think it's a major reach.

**blah3** · 01-10-2012, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I think Vlachos brings a lot of value as a run blocker, but again, you have to consider the fact that Flacco is 5 inches taller than him and taking a direct snap from Vlachos might impede on Flacco's ability to smoothly transition from snap and into his drop steps. It's a legitimate concern. That is one of the reasons why Birk was so desirable as a center prospect at the time. Cam likes taller centers for this very reason.

.

So this guy is 3 inches shorter than Birk? So, that translate to about 1 and 1/2 inches difference, based on height on taking the snap. I don't think that is going to make any kind of difference or cause any problems with the snap. I think that is falling into the trap of over analysis.

**goodandfast** · 01-10-2012, 01:59 PM

One thing to consider with a rookie center is what effect he may have on pass protection. Since the center is responsible for making the line calls the pass pro starts with him. I know that the calls they have to make in college are generally pretty advanced, but I still think its something that has to be considered with rookie centers.

It's also why having a good one is so important to an offense...you don't want to be in a situation where there's an unknown at that position when you are likely going to be poised for another play-off run with a passing game you'd like to continue to develop.

That's why I think, even if they go Center early, I think they still try to retain Gurode or, if they can't, will make some kind of quality interior OL depth signing for security. In either case, if they took the Center in the first or second, I'd expect him to start with Gurode/FA as plan B.

**Shas** · 01-10-2012, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

There are a couple of 2nd tier guys like William Vlachos out of Alabama.

A short, but decent story on Vlachos can be read here Bleacher Report, so it's not exactly probing.

But it does make me wonder if this is a guy the Ravens scouts could jump on as a great value because his performances outshine his measurables. That is often where they get their best mid-round values.

On the other hand, Cam has stated he likes a tall center (hence Birk). Will Cam be around to have a say (I think yes). Will his say outweigh the scouts'? (I think no).

**Mad Puppy** · 01-09-2012, 10:24 AM

Hey guys lets wait untill the season is over (hopefully after Feb 5

) to discuss roster moves...Bad Karma

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 10:24 AM

I doubt Gurode will be here next year. They will probably bring in a bunch of options and open the job up in camp.

**GOTA** · 01-09-2012, 10:32 AM

Blake is very interesting. He is a former OT and a lot more athletic than your typical Center. He's also a big wide bodied guy a lot like Jason Brown. He'd be the guy that I would look for in this draft.

**wickedsolo** · 01-09-2012, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Blake is very interesting. He is a former OT and a lot more athletic than your typical Center. He's also a big wide bodied guy a lot like Jason Brown. He'd be the guy that I would look for in this draft.

Me too and with a good performance at the Senior Bowl he could really elevate his stock.

His biggest problem? He'd be a 26 year old rookie.