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  1. #16

    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Honestly - I just want them to bring in a legit QB's coach, new WR's coach, and a new OL coach.
    at the minimum this needs to happen. Its the only way id swallow having cam around still. OL coach should be fired on principle alone.
    -JAB




  2. #17
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Yea, I dont know if Matsko was any better as a coach, but Moeller certainly hasn't prepared the OL like he should and he's a DUI away from being suspended from the league IIRC.
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  3. #18
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    The only legit option was Norv.

    No way they bring in an unknown at this point.

    Unless there is a major offensive implosion in the post season, Cam is back next year.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Honestly - I just want them to bring in a legit QB's coach, new WR's coach, and a new OL coach.
    I could sign up for this but not much more
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  5. #20
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Brad Childress?

    Connection there with Harbaugh

    Not say he's a good or bad option, just adding him to the thread




  6. #21
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    I don't see Clements making a lateral move and depending on his contract, a team may likely have to name him asst HC
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  7. #22

    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    I believe in Cam.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  8. #23
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Raven View Post
    Brad Childress?

    Connection there with Harbaugh

    Not say he's a good or bad option, just adding him to the thread
    That's my guess. Harbaugh seems to value personal relationships and we know they're close. The West Coast Offense is all about creating space for wide receivers instead of running precise routes. Boldin doens't have the speed to separate. Torrey is not a great route runner. You also have 2 tight ends and a running back who are lethal against zones. That sounds a lot like what Childress did with the Eagles and Vikings.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  9. #24

    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Former Steeler QB coach.




  10. #25
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCurtain View Post
    Former Steeler QB coach.
    Yup.

    He helped Tommy Maddox a lot, IIRC.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  11. #26

    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    The only problem with Tom Clements and a lot of other guys that people are drooling over is that they would want to bring in a complete system overhaul and go to a WCO. While I think Cam's version of the Coryell offense leaves a lot to be desired, that's more the fault of Cam's poor situational play-calling than the system itself being broken. I would also love to be a fly on the wall during the WR/TE positional practices and meetings b/c our WRs don't look well-coached in the Coryell system to me.

    Looking at the roster we really don't have a lot of pieces for the WCO at all. Our personnel (particularly Joe) are much more geared towards the vertical offense or the spread. I would want our next OC to have background in either the Coryell system (Steelers, Cardinals, Cowboys, Chargers) or the spread (Patriots, Saints, Lions, Bills). I think those systems are more suited to what we have on offense currently.

    I do think we need quite a bit of new blood on the offensive coaching staff. QB, OL, WR, all need new position coaches without a shadow of a doubt. If Cam puts together a good post-season and can COEXIST with some high-caliber position coaches (remember he couldn't live with Jim Zorn and forced him out), that might be enough to save his own job.




  12. #27
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    The only problem with Tom Clements and a lot of other guys that people are drooling over is that they would want to bring in a complete system overhaul and go to a WCO. While I think Cam's version of the Coryell offense leaves a lot to be desired, that's more the fault of Cam's poor situational play-calling than the system itself being broken. I would also love to be a fly on the wall during the WR/TE positional practices and meetings b/c our WRs don't look well-coached in the Coryell system to me.

    Looking at the roster we really don't have a lot of pieces for the WCO at all. Our personnel (particularly Joe) are much more geared towards the vertical offense or the spread. I would want our next OC to have background in either the Coryell system (Steelers, Cardinals, Cowboys, Chargers) or the spread (Patriots, Saints, Lions, Bills). I think those systems are more suited to what we have on offense currently.

    I do think we need quite a bit of new blood on the offensive coaching staff. QB, OL, WR, all need new position coaches without a shadow of a doubt. If Cam puts together a good post-season and can COEXIST with some high-caliber position coaches (remember he couldn't live with Jim Zorn and forced him out), that might be enough to save his own job.
    Are you saying that Rodgers and Vick aren't vertical Quarterbacks and don't run the spread? This isn't the same Bill Walsh offense that he developed for the Bengals. It's evolved and changed like everything else.

    Brett Favre was a big armed guy who thrived in the WCO. The biggest change is how the receivers have adjust at the line and look for a space more than a route. The Ravens already do that in their under game with dumpoffs to Rice and Leach anyway. The days of players fitting into 1 system are gone, with the exception of the 3-4 NT. Adopting a different offensive system is not a radical idea.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  13. #28

    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Are you saying that Rodgers and Vick aren't vertical Quarterbacks and don't run the spread? This isn't the same Bill Walsh offense that he developed for the Bengals. It's evolved and changed like everything else.

    Brett Favre was a big armed guy who thrived in the WCO. The biggest change is how the receivers have adjust at the line and look for a space more than a route. The Ravens already do that in their under game with dumpoffs to Rice and Leach anyway. The days of players fitting into 1 system are gone, with the exception of the 3-4 NT. Adopting a different offensive system is not a radical idea.
    I don't disagree that there isn't much of the "pure" WCO left in the NFL, but the examples you cited don't help your case. I'm not sure what you mean by being a "vertical" QB, the distinction is moreso vertical vs. horizontal offensive systems. The same goes for "spread." These are offensive systems, terminologies, route trees, etc. It's more complex than you're making it. People seem to think the WCO just means "short passes" and the spread means "lots of receivers on the field." If you're writing Football for 4-Year Olds, maybe.

    In terms of personnel, Rodgers is pretty close to the ideal QB to fit the WCO - extremely mobile, throws well on the run, highly accurate in the short and intermediate game, great athleticism, can move the chains with his legs, great sense of timing. He does also happen to throw the ball very well in the vertical game, but hey, there's not much he ISN'T good at.

    Vick has a huge arm and is more of a runner, but he fits the bill of a WCO QB well too. Rodgers, Favre, and Vick all have numerous similarities that lend themselves well to the WCO. The system requires: mobility, timing, athleticism, short and intermediate accuracy, etc. Not every QB in the WCO will have all of those qualities (Favre was barely a 60% passer in his career outside of 2009), but that's the ideal.

    Flacco doesn't have a lot of those qualities, and the qualities he does have (great arm strength, deep ball accuracy, toughness in the pocket/pocket presence, extending the play) lend themselves much more to a more vertical offense like the Coryell system. The spread offense is IMO a slightly different concept, it can work more horizontally or vertically, but Flacco was very successful in the spread in college.




  14. #29
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    I don't disagree that there isn't much of the "pure" WCO left in the NFL, but the examples you cited don't help your case. I'm not sure what you mean by being a "vertical" QB, the distinction is moreso vertical vs. horizontal offensive systems. The same goes for "spread." These are offensive systems, terminologies, route trees, etc. It's more complex than you're making it. People seem to think the WCO just means "short passes" and the spread means "lots of receivers on the field." If you're writing Football for 4-Year Olds, maybe.

    In terms of personnel, Rodgers is pretty close to the ideal QB to fit the WCO - extremely mobile, throws well on the run, highly accurate in the short and intermediate game, great athleticism, can move the chains with his legs, great sense of timing. He does also happen to throw the ball very well in the vertical game, but hey, there's not much he ISN'T good at.

    Vick has a huge arm and is more of a runner, but he fits the bill of a WCO QB well too. Rodgers, Favre, and Vick all have numerous similarities that lend themselves well to the WCO. The system requires: mobility, timing, athleticism, short and intermediate accuracy, etc. Not every QB in the WCO will have all of those qualities (Favre was barely a 60% passer in his career outside of 2009), but that's the ideal.

    Flacco doesn't have a lot of those qualities, and the qualities he does have (great arm strength, deep ball accuracy, toughness in the pocket/pocket presence, extending the play) lend themselves much more to a more vertical offense like the Coryell system. The spread offense is IMO a slightly different concept, it can work more horizontally or vertically, but Flacco was very successful in the spread in college.
    Flacco still struggles with his receiver progressions. In the WCO that wouldn't be an issue. It's much more about the open guy than the route. He can also move but really isn't asked to as much in this system. I really think he would benefit from the change providing he had the right coach. He and Cam really seem to have hit a ceiling. Flacco needs some different thinking to break through.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  15. #30
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    Re: Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Flacco still struggles with his receiver progressions. In the WCO that wouldn't be an issue. It's much more about the open guy than the route. He can also move but really isn't asked to as much in this system. I really think he would benefit from the change providing he had the right coach. He and Cam really seem to have hit a ceiling. Flacco needs some different thinking to break through.
    Agreed and I think that might be the deal breaker in retaining Cam.
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