Tom Clements may be a legit option now for OC if they decide to switch

[wickedsolo]

Former Steeler QB coach.

Yup.

He helped Tommy Maddox a lot, IIRC.

[bmorecareful]

The only problem with Tom Clements and a lot of other guys that people are drooling over is that they would want to bring in a complete system overhaul and go to a WCO. While I think Cam's version of the Coryell offense leaves a lot to be desired, that's more the fault of Cam's poor situational play-calling than the system itself being broken. I would also love to be a fly on the wall during the WR/TE positional practices and meetings b/c our WRs don't look well-coached in the Coryell system to me.

Looking at the roster we really don't have a lot of pieces for the WCO at all. Our personnel (particularly Joe) are much more geared towards the vertical offense or the spread. I would want our next OC to have background in either the Coryell system (Steelers, Cardinals, Cowboys, Chargers) or the spread (Patriots, Saints, Lions, Bills). I think those systems are more suited to what we have on offense currently.

I do think we need quite a bit of new blood on the offensive coaching staff. QB, OL, WR, all need new position coaches without a shadow of a doubt. If Cam puts together a good post-season and can COEXIST with some high-caliber position coaches (remember he couldn't live with Jim Zorn and forced him out), that might be enough to save his own job.

[GOTA]

The only problem with Tom Clements and a lot of other guys that people are drooling over is that they would want to bring in a complete system overhaul and go to a WCO. While I think Cam's version of the Coryell offense leaves a lot to be desired, that's more the fault of Cam's poor situational play-calling than the system itself being broken. I would also love to be a fly on the wall during the WR/TE positional practices and meetings b/c our WRs don't look well-coached in the Coryell system to me.

Looking at the roster we really don't have a lot of pieces for the WCO at all. Our personnel (particularly Joe) are much more geared towards the vertical offense or the spread. I would want our next OC to have background in either the Coryell system (Steelers, Cardinals, Cowboys, Chargers) or the spread (Patriots, Saints, Lions, Bills). I think those systems are more suited to what we have on offense currently.

I do think we need quite a bit of new blood on the offensive coaching staff. QB, OL, WR, all need new position coaches without a shadow of a doubt. If Cam puts together a good post-season and can COEXIST with some high-caliber position coaches (remember he couldn't live with Jim Zorn and forced him out), that might be enough to save his own job.

Are you saying that Rodgers and Vick aren't vertical Quarterbacks and don't run the spread? This isn't the same Bill Walsh offense that he developed for the Bengals. It's evolved and changed like everything else.

Brett Favre was a big armed guy who thrived in the WCO. The biggest change is how the receivers have adjust at the line and look for a space more than a route. The Ravens already do that in their under game with dumpoffs to Rice and Leach anyway. The days of players fitting into 1 system are gone, with the exception of the 3-4 NT. Adopting a different offensive system is not a radical idea.

[bmorecareful]

Are you saying that Rodgers and Vick aren't vertical Quarterbacks and don't run the spread? This isn't the same Bill Walsh offense that he developed for the Bengals. It's evolved and changed like everything else.

Brett Favre was a big armed guy who thrived in the WCO. The biggest change is how the receivers have adjust at the line and look for a space more than a route. The Ravens already do that in their under game with dumpoffs to Rice and Leach anyway. The days of players fitting into 1 system are gone, with the exception of the 3-4 NT. Adopting a different offensive system is not a radical idea.

I don't disagree that there isn't much of the "pure" WCO left in the NFL, but the examples you cited don't help your case. I'm not sure what you mean by being a "vertical" QB, the distinction is moreso vertical vs. horizontal offensive systems. The same goes for "spread." These are offensive systems, terminologies, route trees, etc. It's more complex than you're making it. People seem to think the WCO just means "short passes" and the spread means "lots of receivers on the field." If you're writing Football for 4-Year Olds, maybe.

In terms of personnel, Rodgers is pretty close to the ideal QB to fit the WCO - extremely mobile, throws well on the run, highly accurate in the short and intermediate game, great athleticism, can move the chains with his legs, great sense of timing. He does also happen to throw the ball very well in the vertical game, but hey, there's not much he ISN'T good at.

Vick has a huge arm and is more of a runner, but he fits the bill of a WCO QB well too. Rodgers, Favre, and Vick all have numerous similarities that lend themselves well to the WCO. The system requires: mobility, timing, athleticism, short and intermediate accuracy, etc. Not every QB in the WCO will have all of those qualities (Favre was barely a 60% passer in his career outside of 2009), but that's the ideal.

Flacco doesn't have a lot of those qualities, and the qualities he does have (great arm strength, deep ball accuracy, toughness in the pocket/pocket presence, extending the play) lend themselves much more to a more vertical offense like the Coryell system. The spread offense is IMO a slightly different concept, it can work more horizontally or vertically, but Flacco was very successful in the spread in college.

[GOTA]

I don't disagree that there isn't much of the "pure" WCO left in the NFL, but the examples you cited don't help your case. I'm not sure what you mean by being a "vertical" QB, the distinction is moreso vertical vs. horizontal offensive systems. The same goes for "spread." These are offensive systems, terminologies, route trees, etc. It's more complex than you're making it. People seem to think the WCO just means "short passes" and the spread means "lots of receivers on the field." If you're writing Football for 4-Year Olds, maybe.

In terms of personnel, Rodgers is pretty close to the ideal QB to fit the WCO - extremely mobile, throws well on the run, highly accurate in the short and intermediate game, great athleticism, can move the chains with his legs, great sense of timing. He does also happen to throw the ball very well in the vertical game, but hey, there's not much he ISN'T good at.

Vick has a huge arm and is more of a runner, but he fits the bill of a WCO QB well too. Rodgers, Favre, and Vick all have numerous similarities that lend themselves well to the WCO. The system requires: mobility, timing, athleticism, short and intermediate accuracy, etc. Not every QB in the WCO will have all of those qualities (Favre was barely a 60% passer in his career outside of 2009), but that's the ideal.

Flacco doesn't have a lot of those qualities, and the qualities he does have (great arm strength, deep ball accuracy, toughness in the pocket/pocket presence, extending the play) lend themselves much more to a more vertical offense like the Coryell system. The spread offense is IMO a slightly different concept, it can work more horizontally or vertically, but Flacco was very successful in the spread in college.

Flacco still struggles with his receiver progressions. In the WCO that wouldn't be an issue. It's much more about the open guy than the route. He can also move but really isn't asked to as much in this system. I really think he would benefit from the change providing he had the right coach. He and Cam really seem to have hit a ceiling. Flacco needs some different thinking to break through.

[wickedsolo]

Flacco still struggles with his receiver progressions. In the WCO that wouldn't be an issue. It's much more about the open guy than the route. He can also move but really isn't asked to as much in this system. I really think he would benefit from the change providing he had the right coach. He and Cam really seem to have hit a ceiling. Flacco needs some different thinking to break through.

Agreed and I think that might be the deal breaker in retaining Cam.

[BleedPurple92]

I Believe in Cam.

[GOTA]

I Believe in Cam.

Never realized your full name was BleedPurple92 Cameron.

[wickedsolo]

I think one thing that needs to happen is getting Flacco better at pre-snap reads.

I just keep thinking back to the Chargers game when Norv Turner would send guys in motion to help Rivers determine what kind of coverage they were in. Absolutely genius.

[houstonravensfan]

Honestly - I just want them to bring in a legit QB's coach, new WR's coach, and a new OL coach.

You forgot ST coach.

[BleedPurple92]

I think one thing that needs to happen is getting Flacco better at pre-snap reads.

I just keep thinking back to the Chargers game when Norv Turner would send guys in motion to help Rivers determine what kind of coverage they were in. Absolutely genius.

Not to sound like that guy, but I've been motioning RBs out of the backfield to figure out if its man or Zone coverage since madden 05... unless they had Man lock in 08, which is where the LB or safety follows them even if its zone, but whatever that's not my point.

There's nothing genius about that. We did it in week 1 where Ray motioned out, on his TD vs Timmons. So i mean, that really isn't that big a deal man. There are other ways of figuring out Man or Zone coverage than motioning a HB, its just Ray is vs their HB in Man coverage is a bad idea. I see teams do that ALL THE TIME.

Would i like to see more of that, yes, because i honestly think if trained properly Ray
Rice could be a Wes Welker type Receiver, he has great hands and he's quick, but i mean "Absolutely Genius" eeehh i wouldn't go that far.

[BleedPurple92]

Never realized your full name was BleedPurple92 Cameron.

You cant spell Lambardi, without AM, don't worry about the C. Think about it.