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  1. #49

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster



    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Yeah, I knew the back ends of these contracts were pretty much fiction. And therefore the total figures are pretty much worthless. I guess I didn't realize that the signing bonus was pretty much the only thing that matters; I thought you could 'guarantee' more than just the signing bonus (which by definition is guaranteed because it is paid upfront). Trying to look up the details of Holmes' contract it looked like (the way I read it) his first two years salaries were included in the 'guaranteed' money, but it didn't mention when it was paid (which I assumed was the key in determining how it is treated for cap purposes). It listed his 1st year salary as $1M, and 2nd year as $7.75M, but like I said it said the $24M guaranteed 'includes' these amounts. I assumed that meant his upfront money was $24M less the $8.75M; if not, does it mean he got all the $24M up front but then gets no salary (just small roster bonuses) in years 1 and 2?

    Either way, you are right that Wallace will draw more than Holmes (and less than Fitz), probably a large chunk more.
    Most agents/players are looking at the first 3 years of a deal for the real value these days. The way long term deals are structured it is extremely hard for a team to cut a player they just locked up for a while without killing their cap until after year 3. A large chunk of the signing bonus, plus the yearly salaries are knocked out in that time period with the
    "exit strategy" part of the deal if it goes bad after that.

    That is why the Jets can't cut Holmes. He is guaranteed like 7.5 million next year regardless, even in 2013 it is going to hurt if they cut him but this year they just can't do it. They are stuck. I guess you could say they are "lucky" it is only a 5 year deal, because if it was longer they would probably have to keep him for 2013 as well. But either way they won't be parting ways.

    In Wallace's case, he is going to have even more leverage with because the three most recent deals are going to be what Fitz got, what Holmes got..and what Vincent Jackson is going to get. The Chargers have said they aren't going to franchise him and he is a UFA. I guarantee Wallace and his agent will be following that negotiation and won't sign anything until they know what Jackson is in line for. And I suspect Jackson is going to get a nice deal, setting the market for Wallace. You also have a couple headcases in Desean Jackson and Stevie Williams who are UFA's coming up this year too. It is very rare that you will have that many recent deals at your position when you are coming up for yours to compare too, so Wallace should be in no rush to do anything.

    All those deals will just increase his value because they are so fresh and not a year or two old like the deals a lot of agents normally have to use to negotiate. The market will be set higher, and it could be a lot higher.




  2. #50

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by vinny600 View Post
    Hey SteelFan I agree it will hurt and we must lower our expectations for a couple of years however I think with our drafting record we will still a contender during this time. Even if our defense drops from #1 to #9 or #10 I think our offense can get better after the 2012 draft providing we take a OLman in the first or second round. This can counter the drop on defense. Who knows maybe I'm too optomistic but I've been a hardcore fan since about 1990 and have seen only 4 losing seasons and one 8-8 season. We have the best FO in football and I have faith they will make the best choices available to them to minimize the bleeding.
    Agreed on most counts. I trust the FO - I usually don't bother getting swept up in cap numbers and doomsday scenarios. Before this year people were gleefully talking about the Steelers being several million over, and waiting anxiously to see who they had to sacrifice to get under...and it was all much ado about nothing. But this time they will have to lose a lot of vets, either cutting to get under, or just via retirement, and it'll have an impact. I agree however that the team will still be competitive - the offense is young, under contract, and filled with a lot of playmakers.

    Draft picks will be crucial. Tomlin's done well enough, especially in rounds 1-3...but he could do better. And he'll need to if the Steelers want to avoid any kind of prolonged re-loading period. I refuse to say rebuilding, because as you noted, the team has only had 7 losing seasons in the last 40 years, and never more than 2 in a row...we don't get stuck in rebuilding periods.




  3. #51

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Steelers are in deep doo doo. Noway they will be able to keep Wallace and Brown. Some team will tender Wallace with a big contract and Steelers won't be able to match it. You lose your first round pick, but you get a PROVEN commodity in return, can't say that with draft picks. Or at least will drive the price way up on the Steelers, crippling them even more. Ravens should target him. Bengals should do it with two number 1's neither that high. Weaken steelers and put him with Green, Simpson and Gresham and give Dalton another year behind that line. They may be the best offense in AFC and still have another number 1 pick. Bengals would be dumb not to. Other teams in the back of the draft could do it too. Never underestimate the Payriots to take him, Brady needs a fast deep threat. Pats also have 2 late first round picks.
    Last edited by Boulderraven; 01-08-2012 at 04:37 PM.




  4. #52

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    They are gonna blow this thing up. They have little choice. What we saw today was the last gasp of this current crop.




  5. #53

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Even Steeler fans know it is over....

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=68&f=1897&t=8544037




  6. #54
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    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Even Steeler reporters know it's over...

    Look at Baltimore and the decidedly different approach the Ravens took last offseason, shipping out a few veterans, keeping a few and allowing the youngsters to pick up the slack when the Ray Lewises went down.

    I thought it would knock the Ravens backward. Instead, it gave them fresh life.

    I raised that example with Rooney after this game, and the man with the final say on these things didn't exactly give a ringing endorsement for keeping everyone together again: "That's something for us to sit down and consider in the days and weeks to come. Right now, the loss just hurts."

    Sure does. The Steelers of old would have devoured this quarterback and this opponent.

    Those Steelers are done.


    Read more: Kovacevic: Steelers never found that spark - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review




  7. #55
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    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    I think that they will certainly have a hard time keeping Mike Wallace, unless he really wants to stay there, which is very possible. I mean, we do not know much about how Wallace feels about Pittsburgh.

    Otherwise, I think that teams would have little issue, offering him a nice contract, seeing as they would only have to give up a first round pick. There will be plenty of teams that will have to spend this off-season, due to the new rules.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #56

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    That new rule of only a first rounder does change things in regards to Wallace.

    Remember in 2013 the salary "floor" kicks in, and there are a ton of small market teams who don't spend anywhere near it and could afford to have a #1 WR contract and could easily make a big contract offer.....that the Steelers can't match.




  9. #57

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Just off the top of my head here is the prognostication for the Steelers roster and their fate.

    No chance in hell they are getting cut.....

    Ben Roethilsberger at Quarterback 8 yr/$102,000,000 2015 2016
    LaMarr Woodley at Linebacker 6 yr/$61,500,000 2016 2017
    James Harrison at Linebacker 6 yr/$51,750,000 2014 2015
    Lawrence Timmons at Linebacker 6 yr/$50,000,000 2016 2017
    Troy Polamalu at Safety 4 yr/$36,500,000 2014 2015
    Heath Miller at Tight End 6 yr/$35,300,000 2014 2015
    Willie Colon at Tackle 5 yr/$29,000,000 2015 2016
    Maurkice Pouncey at Center 5 yr/$17,960,000 2014 2015
    Rashard Mendenhall at Running Back 5 yr/$9,855,000 2012 2013
    Evander Hood at Defensive End 5 yr/$8,700,000 2013 2014
    Cameron Heyward at Defensive End 4 yr/$6,700,000 2014 2015
    Jason Worilds at Linebacker 4 yr/$3,700,000 2013 2014
    Marcus Gilbert at Tackle 4 yr/$3,227,000 2014 2015
    Emmanuel Sanders at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$1,801,000 2012 2013
    Ramon Foster at Guard 3 yr/$1,193,000 2011 2012
    Issac Redman at Running Back 3 yr/$1,035,000 2011 2012
    Antonio Brown at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$1,288,000 2012 2013



    More than likely back(due to age/cost)...


    Jonathan Dwyer at Running Back 3 yr/$1,293,000 2012 2013
    Jonathan Scott at Tackle 1 yr/$1,300,000 2011 2012
    Jerricho Cotchery at Wide Receiver 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
    Keenan Lewis at Cornerback 1 yr/$685,000 2011 2012
    Jamon Meredith at Tackle 1 yr/$525,000 2011 2012
    Ryan Mundy at Safety 1 yr/$525,000 2011 2012
    Doug Legursky at Center/Guard 1 yr/$525,000 2011 2012
    Steve McLendon at Defensive Tackle 1 yr/$405,000 2011 2012
    Mewelde Moore at Running Back 1 yr/$575,000 2011 2012
    Greg Warren at Long Snapper 2 yr/$1,620,000 2012 2013
    Cortez Allen at Cornerback 4 yr/$2,432,000 2014 2015
    Larry Foote at Linebacker 3 yr/$9,300,000 2012 2013
    William Gay at Cornerback 1 yr/$685,000 2011 2012
    Chris Carter at Linebacker 4 yr/$2,204,000 2014 2015
    Stevenson Sylvester at Linebacker 3 yr/$1,332,000 2012 2013
    Byron Leftwich at Quarterback 1 yr/$1,750,000 2011 2012


    Probably going to get cut/not be back....


    Ike Taylor at Cornerback 4 yr/$28,000,000 2014 2015
    Hines Ward at Wide Receiver 5 yr/$24,850,000 2013 2014
    Aaron Smith at Defensive End 5 yr/$24,500,000 2011 2012
    Casey Hampton at Tackle 3 yr/$21,300,000 2012 2013
    Chris Kemoeatu at Guard 5 yr/$20,000,000 2013 2014
    Brett Keisel at Defensive End 5 yr/$18,885,000 2013 2014
    James Farrior at Linebacker 5 yr/$18,250,000 2012 2013
    Ryan Clark at Safety 4 yr/$17,000,000 2013 2014
    Shaun Suisham at Kicker 4 yr/$6,300,000 2014 2015
    Chris Hoke at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
    Daniel Sepulveda at Punter 1 yr/$650,000 2011 2012
    Bryant McFadden at Cornerback 3 yr/$7,500,000 2012 2013
    Baron Batch at Running Back 4 yr/$2,086,512 2014 2015
    Dorian Brooks at Guard 2 yr/$725,000 2011 2012

    On the fence....

    Will Allen at Cornerback 3 yr/$4,400,000 2012 2013
    Arnez Battle at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$3,900,000 2012 2013
    Mike Wallace at Wide Receiver 3 yr/$1,700,000 2011 2012
    Trai Essex at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
    Max Starks at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
    Charlie Batch at Quarterback 2 yr/$1,720,000 2011 2012


    Not enough info to make a call on.....

    Curtis Brown at Cornerback 4 yr/$2,560,000 2014 2015
    Weslye Saunders at Tight End 3 yr/$1,474,000 2013 2014
    David Johnson at Tight End 3 yr/$1,218,200 2011 2012
    Dennis Dixon at Quarterback 1 yr/$1,200,000 2011 2012



    Steelfan maybe you can give some insight on the back end of the roster, I have never heard of a lot of those guys.
    Last edited by 52decleetzu; 01-09-2012 at 10:57 PM.




  10. #58
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    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Well, they have to keep the young CB that was starting opposite Taylor, don't they? Which Allen was that?
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #59

    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Cortez Allen
    I don't know anything realy about him, wikipedia has him 6 ft 1 in, 197 lb and fourth round pick from The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina

    Ike Taylor stands out on that list, seven million a year
    He was excellent against us Week One and he's normally a decent CB but got embarressed last night. For that salary, that'll get you cut

    On the fence....

    Max Starks at Tackle 1 yr/$810,000 2011 2012
    I think Starks comes back, they cut him in July but brought him back in October as Jonathan Scott was becoming a liability
    He's an adequate tackle, not old at 29 going on thirty. They brought him back for a reason and if his demands are not high, he's a low risk value player
    Last edited by Irish Raven; 01-09-2012 at 09:25 PM.




  12. #60
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    Re: Stealers cap situation for 2012 a complete disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Raven View Post
    Cortez Allen
    I don't know anything realy about him, wikipedia has him 6 ft 1 in, 197 lb and fourth round pick from The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina

    Ike Taylor stands out on that list, seven million a year
    He was excellent against us Week One and he's normally a decent CB but got embarressed last night. For that salary, that'll get you cut



    I think Starks comes back, they cut him in July but brought him back in October as Jonathan Scott was becoming a liability
    He's an adequate tackle, not old at 29 going on thirty. They brought him back for a reason and if his demands are not high, he's a low risk value player
    Considering that he was covering Evans for most of that game, I think its hard to determine that. In hindsight, given what Evans has done, I don't think its a stretch to say that he just drew an easy assignment. And Evans poor play made him look good.




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