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  1. #31
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk



    when it came up last year, Ray said that he would be open to taking a reduced role when the time came. he didn't indicate who would decide when the time was right, but i think we can assume that he was talking about himself knowing when the time had come.




  2. #32

    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    that was 4 seasons ago!!! we have seen how much more effective JJ has been this year with a lighter workload. it is time to do the same with Ray, but the coaching staff won't do it this year. they will ask him to be a 2 down backer next year after they ask him to restructure his contract. IMHO
    He keeps talking about what Ray Lewis has done in the past..

    Right now, he is hurt, and Old..... Saddens me to say it but he's basically a 2 down back.

    Anyone who wants to argue to the contrary, i would understand, i almost want to say fuck it play him on offense too, but i mean reality is a bitch.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  3. #33

    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    when it came up last year, Ray said that he would be open to taking a reduced role when the time came. he didn't indicate who would decide when the time was right, but i think we can assume that he was talking about himself knowing when the time had come.
    And since he answers all questions about how he feels physically with "I feel the best I ever have," lol, I don't see him pulling himself out.

    Obviously he has lost a couple steps, but his prime was a step faster than great. So that leaves him a step worse than great, which is good. We could get faster guys in there on passing downs, but you are sacrificing experience to gain in speed. It might lead to a few extra PDs (and maybe punts) then one entirely blown coverage for a TD. It may not, it is hard to say. I do think we could maybe scheme things a bit differently under the assumption Ray cannot cover athletic TEs or RBs by himself, but then again you may face the same Ray-veto of that decision.

    I suspect, as the OP has pondered, that it will have to be glaringly obvious that Ray should come off the field on 3rd down for him to agree or decide to do it. I don't think the drop off is glaring enough yet, but I do notice it on some plays.




  4. #34
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs View Post
    All I can provide is a comment I'm sure everyone heard Harbaugh make about Ray pretty much deciding what Ray wants to do. I probably worded what I said wrong. It is more of a presumption that if the Ravens took Ray off the field on third down he would most likely throw a fit.

    Anyone can feel free to disagree with what they think his reaction would be. People's thoughts on scaling down his workload at this point, not next season or never is what I wanted the thread to be about.

    It doesn't look like he scares anybody anymore.
    Thanks for clearing that up because I had not ever heard ray say anything about being asked to come out on 3rd downs. Not that I don't think it a good idea. He has lost a step or two, especially dropping back in coverage. His numbers are still very respectable though in almost all categories.




  5. #35
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    I'm sorry but I stick with the fact that a future Hall of Famer and arguably still a top 5 MLB should always be on the field.

    Maybe I'm wrong but I just think we were so used to seeing maybe the greatest MLB ever play that now that he is older and not playing the position at a level higher than everyone else and just playing the position the way most do we are looking at it as a flaw when in reality this is what good LB play looks like instead of maybe the greatest play ever?
    Hating Steeler Fans Since Birth

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    Lets Go Flacco




  6. #36
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Ray wanted to come back 2 games earlier than he did and the coaches said no. This coaching staff is not scared of him. If they feel they have a better option than Ray Lewis on 3rd down or any other down they would play him.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  7. #37
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Ray wanted to come back 2 games earlier than he did and the coaches said no. This coaching staff is not scared of him. If they feel they have a better option than Ray Lewis on 3rd down or any other down they would play him.
    This, at this point I see no one on the sideline who is a better option, and I have said for years that Ray can't cover across the middle anymore.




  8. #38
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Somehow, I really don't think Harbaugh will let the legacy crap play into his decision. I really don't. Harbs has had a role in sending several beloved Ravens packing and he even benched Cmac for a much worse Frank Walker.

    The reason that Ray hasn't been phased out is because they don't have full faith in the guys behind him. I like Ellerbe a lot but he's had some injury woes and he's spent some time in Harbaugh's dog house.




  9. #39
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Ray was having a Pro Bowl season before he got hurt and looks washed up since coming back. I find it hard to believe it's a coincidence.




  10. #40

    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiMoon View Post
    Ray was having a Pro Bowl season before he got hurt and looks washed up since coming back. I find it hard to believe it's a coincidence.
    Agree with that, he's still hurt. He spent half the game on the ground against Cleveland.

    Did anyone else notice Cleveland continually splitting out their backs to the far end of their formations in passing downs(like San Diego did before only a lesser amount).

    The Ravens tried once putting Ray on Ogobonaya and he had a 12 yard reception because Ray had to play off about 6-8 yards. Then, they started putting McClain or Ayanbadejo on the wide Rb and left Ray isolated in the middle (which is probably what Cleveland really wanted). They then made hay over the middle leading to a ~17% increase in their 3rd down conversion rate between game 1 and 2 against the Browns.

    And this was against Ben Watson/Evan Moore and Seneca Wallace, not Brady and Gronkowski/Hernandez.

    Pagano has got to figure out how to neutralize this tactic which is leading to Ray Lewis being isolated and frankly picked on by opposing offenses. It's a guarantee Cincy is going to do the same thing this week. Hopefully it's just a matter of Ray's toe healing up...




  11. #41

    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    It really is a tough call, and it is close to that point where the extra step he gains by the study and knowledge of the D is being lost to more than a step of physical limitation. There have been plays this year that just wouldn't happen to him in the past. If it is the injury, hopefully a bye will help heal it up.

    If he really is slower though as much as everyone here wants to think his ego will not let him sit a few plays, I think it would. We all know he wants that 2nd ring, winning one for the teammates that have been here for a while, the ego boost of going out a champion. Even if he sits on a few 3rd and 8s it will still be "Ray's Defense".

    The question is, do the Ravens have schemes where the defense is better off with someone else at MLB or is Ray still the best option a step slower but adding that coordinator on the field value. Personally I believe the value he adds in play recognition against the playoff QBs likely to be seen puts the team in better position to make big plays or make fewer big mistakes, even at the risk of more 3rd down conversions




  12. #42
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    Smile Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcNulty View Post
    It really is a tough call, and it is close to that point where the extra step he gains by the study and knowledge of the D is being lost to more than a step of physical limitation. There have been plays this year that just wouldn't happen to him in the past. If it is the injury, hopefully a bye will help heal it up.

    If he really is slower though as much as everyone here wants to think his ego will not let him sit a few plays, I think it would. We all know he wants that 2nd ring, winning one for the teammates that have been here for a while, the ego boost of going out a champion. Even if he sits on a few 3rd and 8s it will still be "Ray's Defense".

    The question is, do the Ravens have schemes where the defense is better off with someone else at MLB or is Ray still the best option a step slower but adding that coordinator on the field value. Personally I believe the value he adds in play recognition against the playoff QBs likely to be seen puts the team in better position to make big plays or make fewer big mistakes, even at the risk of more 3rd down conversions
    Solid 1st post. Welcome to the board... Bc




  13. #43

    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    It's almost time for Ngata Another Suggs to receive a Tough Talk for not backing up his opinion with facts.

    Ray has missed a few tackles but in the NFL it happens and has been a rising trend with the new rules that favor the offensive player.

    I fully trust what my eyes have seen from Ray during his return from the toe injury, that he will be just fine against whichever teams we play.

    UNLEASH THE BEASTS!!!!




  14. #44
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    Re: Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

    Lewis- 19/27, 70.4%, 229 yards, 119 YAC, 0 TD, 1 INT, 6 PD, 80.6 QB Rating - 12.05 yds per COMPLETION, 6.2 of Which is YAC per Completion.

    EDIT RAY LEWIS: the majority of the damage done vs Ray has been in the last 2 games, since his toe injury

    Prior to that he was:

    14/21, 66.7%, 154 Yards, 89 YAC, 0 TD, 1 INT, 6 PD, 68.35 QB Rating

    And the majority of that damage was on 1 play in Week 1 (31 yard pass to Hines Ward w/ 16 YAC)


    Willis- 38/56, 67.9%, 333 yards, 204 YAC, 2 TD, 1 int, 12 PD, 87.9 QB Rating - 8.76 Per COMPLETION, 5.37 YAC per Comp

    Urlacher- 37/52, 71.2%, 365 yards, 222 YAC, 2 TD, 3 INT, 7 PD, 79.4 QB Rating -9.86 per comp, 6 yac pc

    Derrick Johnson- 35/49, 71.4%, 379 Yards, 306 YAC, 3 TD, 2 int, 9 PD, 97.2 QB Rating -10.83 pc, 8.74 yac pc

    Cushing- 33/44. 75%, 307 yards, 213 YAC, 1 TD, 2 INT, 5 PD, 82.3 QB Rating - 9.3 per comp, 6.45 yac pc

    I will update this soon with ray lewis compared to our other ILBs which will give a better indication of whether he shouldnt play on third down

    edit some more

    Dansby: 33/50, 66%, 333 Yards, 232 YAC, 0 TD, 1 INT, 76.5 QB Rating

    D'Qwell Jackson: 26/33, 78.8%, 285 Yards, 117 Yac, 2 TD, 1 INT, 110.2 QB Rating

    Paul Posluszny: 33/49, 67.3%, 387 Yards, 114 YAC, 3 TD, 2 INT, 94.5 QB Rating

    Sean Lee: 46/59, 78%, 466 Yards, 324 YAC, 3 TD, 4 INT, 88.3 QB Rating

    Desmond Bishop: 43/53, 81.1%, 522 Yards, 259 YAC, 2 TDs, 0 int, 120.3 QB Rating

    Lawrence Timmons: 18/23, 78.3%, 191 Yards, 140 YAC, 2 TD, 1 INT, 112.2 QB Rating
    Last edited by arnie_uk; 12-28-2011 at 01:06 PM.




  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcNulty View Post
    It really is a tough call, and it is close to that point where the extra step he gains by the study and knowledge of the D is being lost to more than a step of physical limitation. There have been plays this year that just wouldn't happen to him in the past. If it is the injury, hopefully a bye will help heal it up.

    If he really is slower though as much as everyone here wants to think his ego will not let him sit a few plays, I think it would. We all know he wants that 2nd ring, winning one for the teammates that have been here for a while, the ego boost of going out a champion. Even if he sits on a few 3rd and 8s it will still be "Ray's Defense".

    The question is, do the Ravens have schemes where the defense is better off with someone else at MLB or is Ray still the best option a step slower but adding that coordinator on the field value. Personally I believe the value he adds in play recognition against the playoff QBs likely to be seen puts the team in better position to make big plays or make fewer big mistakes, even at the risk of more 3rd down conversions
    Agree with everything.

    Welcome to the boards! Can you get The Bunk and Rawls to start posting, too?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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