Ray Lewis- Giving Him the Tough Talk

**The Excellector** · 12-27-2011, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by BleedPurple92

Agree with nns.....Everyone gets old he is a huge liability....
Anyone remember vs Cleveland on that screen pass that ellerbe pretty much ran past two olinemen to make the play. Ray couldnt do that. People get old. Sucks to think about with ray.

Without Ray, Ellerbe might not even know the screen is coming. Brady would eat him and McClain alive, without Ray's knowledge.

**Ngata Nother Suggs** · 12-27-2011, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I've watched that man take Dominique Foxworth, Chris Carr and Frank Walker, into Gillette Stadium, as his starting CBs, along with little pass rush, and suddenly come alive to stomp the Patriots into the ground.

He stays in as long as he is breathing.

Two years ago isn't who he is now, and add a bad toe to it for the 2011 postseason.

If there is any need to prove how quickly skills erode just look at Mason.

**The Excellector** · 12-27-2011, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs

Two years ago isn't who he is now and add a bad toe to it now.

If there is any need to prove how quickly skills erode just look at Mason.

That may be true, but Ray's anticipation has really helped this team make plays that they otherwise, may not make, even with more athleticism.

**arnie_uk** · 12-27-2011, 08:44 PM

someone posted this on another forum earlier in the year and a fellow poster came up with stats to show ray lewis is giving up around QBR of 50 on pass plays... i dont know if that is still the case heading into week 17

he was ahead of patrick willis and the likes

Maybe someone can find some stats on this

**Ngata Nother Suggs** · 12-27-2011, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

That may be true, but Ray's anticipation has really helped this team make plays that they otherwise, may not make, even with more athleticism.

His leadership and ability to see the game in a way nobody else except for maybe Reed can is invaluable.

Ray's inability to run to the spot fast enough doesn't help them at this point.

There has to be a balance. The decision has to be made for Ray that he isn't an every down player at this point. Like everything else maybe they just need to learn the hard way when a change needs to be made.

**Ngata Nother Suggs** · 12-27-2011, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

someone posted this on another forum earlier in the year and a fellow poster came up with stats to show ray lewis is giving up around QBR of 50 on pass plays... i dont know if that is still the case heading into week 17

he was ahead of patrick willis and the likes

Maybe someone can find some stats on this

Someone will definitely chime in citing stats that Ray isn't as ineffective as I'm making him out to be, but I was cussing him out more than anyone on the defense on Sunday.

Sometimes your eyes work well enough to see what is in front of your face I think.

**BleedPurple92** · 12-27-2011, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Without Ray, Ellerbe might not even know the screen is coming. Brady would eat him and McClain alive, without Ray's knowledge.

This made me laugh.. so is he using his telepathic powers to alert him to screens??

Really, so Ellerbe couldn't have read a screen and went after it??

What kind of a notion is that?

Who told you he wouldn't have made that play without Ray? What??

**HoustonRaven** · 12-27-2011, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs

Ray insists he isn't coming off the field on third down in obvious passing situations even though he has become an enormous liability in pass coverage.

Respectfully, can you provide a link or some back up to this?

It's a big claim, one that some background would provide everyone with the proper perspective.

**BleedPurple92** · 12-27-2011, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Respectfully, can you provide a link or some back up to this?

It's a big claim, one that some background would provide everyone with the proper perspective.

I don't have a link but i remember a behind the bench series... where Ray was yelling at pagano against Pittsburgh, i think it was last year..

He kept saying, "If you take your best middle linebacker off the field they go right through the middle, i've played pittsburgh enough times to know this, they do it every time"

Not a word for word quote, but probably a couple of words are missing.. Pretty much he was yelling at pagano, and pagano was just standing there acting like a kid who stole a cookie from the cookie Jar.

No way any DC in baltimore since Marvin Lewis has more authority than Ray Lewis... What ray wants happens.. Its like Peyton Manning in Indy he ran that offense.

**The Excellector** · 12-27-2011, 08:55 PM

I've seen Tony Romo come to the line with a play set up, only to watch Ray call the play out. Then, after Romo audibles, knowing that Ray knew the original play, Ray calls the audible out, leaving Romo with the look of nervousness on his face, because he can't fool the defense.

I've seen Ray alert Suggs that the play is coming his way, only for Suggs to lose contain and let the RB get around him, even after Ray told him the play was coming that way.

Ellerbe and McClain are not doing that against Ben Roethlisberger and Tom Brady. T.J. Yates is another story.

**MarkS** · 12-27-2011, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ngata Nother Suggs

The Playoffs arrive in a couple of weeks and Ray insists he isn't coming off the field on third down in obvious passing situations even though he has become an enormous liability in pass coverage.

Can any of the Ravens coaches really believe he doesn't need to come off the field on third down? That now is really the time because he has become too slow.

It's hard to overlook the effectiveness of the defense without Ray on the field for that month, then as soon as he gets back the defense looks weaker.

Ray's handling is definitely a delicate situation, but they're getting sliced up with him on the field more than they were when he wasn't. He might be better with a reduced workload primarily playing the run.

Is satisfying Ray's ego worth making it a lot harder to get off the field on third down? In order to go anywhere we're going to need that defense from the 49ers game. The game Ray didn't play in.

The offense is the popular place to go looking for the Ravens flaws, but they have a pretty big one on defense with their biggest player. The playoffs isn't a place I want to watch Ray looking so slow and ineffective, especially when they did fine without him.

You say Ray is an "enormous liability in pass coverage", and that the team's defense was demonstrably more effective without him as if those were proven facts. They're not:

Ravens passing defense, 11 games with Ray:
196 yds/game, 7 TDs (.64/game)

Ravens passing defense, 4 games w/out Ray:
188 yds/game, 3 TDs (.75/game)

Add to that the fact that all 4 of the teams we faced without Ray are some of the worst passing offenses in the league:
20th Cincy
23rd Cleveland
27th San Fran
29th Indy

You can make a case that the team's defense played overall a bit better without Ray, but not really against the pass.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-27-2011, 08:58 PM

He lead the team in tackles again. In SD it was the Secondary getting burned wit Webb out.
Last week Redding was out. Those are some of the reasons why they struggled but to me it's the least of the issues