The truth behind the accuracy/inaccuracy debate.

**The Excellector** · 12-26-2011, 12:18 PM

Good Morning, Afternoon and Evening to All,

A few days ago, it occurred to me that we have spent a significant portion of this NFL season, micro-analyzing every unsuccessful pass that Joe Flacco has thrown. We question whether he threw it on time or threw it late. We question whether he put too much air under the ball or too much zip on it.

Some of this is unavoidable as, contrary to popular belief, I am not the only nerd with time on his hands here. However, I think that, through other threads, we have begun to touch on the real issue in this debate of sorts. If Joe Flacco does not throw the ball perfectly, it is not likely to be caught.

There seems to be this misled idea floating around that the better QBs (Conceivably better than Flacco), always put the ball where it is supposed to be. However, I think the reality is that most, if not all, of them have a receiver or two that helps them out in tough spots. Tom Brady is known for his accuracy and I touched on this in another thread. However, as we have all likely watched a few Patriots games, there seem to be one or two catches per game (At least) where we can say to ourselves 'Man, how did Welker pull that one in?'. For Aaron Rodgers, that player has become Jordy Nelson. Even when you look at quarterbacks comparable, for Matthew Stafford, that player is Calvin Johnson. For Matt Schaub, that player was Andre Johnson. For Philip Rivers, that player has long been Antonio Gates.

These are guys who can bring in the high throw or the low throw, or the tough catch in 'traffic' as we like to say. Right now, we are not seeing that from the Ravens WRs/TEs, with the possible exception of Dennis Pitta. We are not seeing guys bring in some of the easier catches, let alone the catches in tight coverage. We are not seeing guys come back to the football, especially when their quarterback is in trouble. We are not seeing guys become the defender when the interception is near. Sad to say, even Boldin has had more of a case of these issues than he did when he first arrived.

As the offense generally plays better at home, I think that they can be okay if they get a home-field advantage, although that theory does not give a technically sound solution to the problem. However, this is something that I think they should really look into this off-season and they likely will.

**The Excellector** · 12-26-2011, 12:48 PM

I do think that, after getting his feet wet, Tandan Doss can become one of those guys. However, it would be unrealistic for me to expect that this season.

**Jsmoove** · 12-26-2011, 12:54 PM

Excel, we have one guy who can do that but he's being mightly under used in cams system.. 81 has came up with some awesome caches on 3rd and long, tight coverages, you name it he has done it. The problem is he needs to be in the slot more often to make mis matches against LBs and safeties. People on here complain about boldins lack of speed, his drops on all that, drops is one thing but time again he has made thise tough catches across the middle on 3rd downs, he never had speed he is the type of guy you won't get that separation from his separation is just put it up and let me get it. We have one Cam just don't use him right.

**Beau Petard** · 12-26-2011, 12:58 PM

Ex-
I think you make some good points. What concerns me is that, after almost 4 seasons, I don't get the sense that he's getting more comfortable with how to throw to his receivers. I suspect part of the problem has been the endless parade of guys who catch the ball for the Ravens, so I can allow for him not progressing towards a better familiarity with certain guys. But as an example, I still see him throw unhurried "high" passes to Ray Rice (I believe there was one really awful flare pass over Ray's outstretched 5 foot and change height), who arguably should be an eyes closed cinch for Flacco knowing how and where to throw. And I'm wondering about the lead/length of some of the loner throws to guys like T. Smith, where I see Smith having to slow down and/or come back to get the ball.

Obiously, Flacco does throw a lot of nice, clean, well-placed passes, so I'm not here to bury him, more to wonder if there's still something elementary that he needs to "get". IMHO, if/when he DOES achieve that comfort level, I think we could see a quantum leap up in th eeffectiveness of the offense.

**LukeDaniel** · 12-26-2011, 12:59 PM

Overall, I think your premise is sound and insightful. However, it seems like we always directly or indirectly equate the failures of the offense on not having good enough WRs. The last two years, our biggest shakeups roster-wise have been at WR and TE and nothing seems to have improved. That's why I don't think you can totally take Joe off the hook either. Good QBs make mediocre WRs look good. Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers have all taken WRs who nobody really wanted or nobody really knew anything about and turned them into household names (how's that Austin Collie fellow done for you lately?). With the Ravens, it seems to be the opposite. We seem to be constantly looking for good fits in the passing game and constantly swinging and missing and I don't think you can absolve Joe from some of the blame of that.

**The Excellector** · 12-26-2011, 01:20 PM

LukeDaniel, I think that you mentioned four quarterbacks who are known for doing that now, but were not known for doing that at this same point in their careers.

Beau,

Last year, I think that Joe was nervous about turning the ball over, as a result of the coaching staff pressing that issue. Particularly, after the Cincinnati Bengals game last season. This year, I do think that a part of it is that Joe does not trust his receivers enough to comfortably wing it in there. He seems to be very concerned with placing it perfectly, because it can otherwise be a turnover. I think a part of that is due to this idea that if it is not thrown as such, it could very well be a turnover.

**TtlPkg17** · 12-26-2011, 01:38 PM

I think it is a lot more involved to be honest. It is a combination of the receivers and Joe. I mean come on.... dropped passes? bad throws? They BOTH happen every game. I also think we have very poor play designs. I have many reasons for this. Why does it seem that we are one of the few teams in the NFL that can never force a defense to "blow coverage" ? It is very rare that we see a receiver wide open through play design. With the exception of Rice at times. I just feel it is a combination of many many things. The problem with the Ravens is that when it rains it pours. We dont seem to have just isolated incidents here and there. When we start to slip it seems they all slip. When they are in a rythem , they are ALL in a rythem. This is why i feel that so many people disagree about who is to blame. You have the blame Joe crowd, blame the receivers crowd, blame Cam crowd. This team has a ton of talent. What i think they need is someone to actually proide a spark when needed. A player that will stand up and say "dam it, Give ME the ball I,m gonna make a play" Saturday, for the Browns for example, it was that return. Now these guys are proffesionals. They should not need a "spark" but to me that is what seems to be needed at times. Also they should never ever be worried about being critisized for blowing a team out. Come out every game planning to run up the score. EVERY GAME ! All we can do at this point is to have faith, support this team, and hope that someone will step up and want to give this team a jolt in the ass to get their heads into it.

Ohhhh and I agree with the OP we are gonna kill Cincy.

**Purple4ever** · 12-26-2011, 01:49 PM

I agree with all the posts so far in this thread. And I think the OP may have hit the nail on the head.

I have noticed that, for some reason, Joe seems to be the most accurate on the "intermediate" lenghts of passes...not the "long bombs" (lower percentage for any passer), and not the short ones. Iit is really frustrating to see those misses occur almost every game on the "short tosses", which for a pro, should just be a simple throw-and-catch.

As I was watching the Detroit game on Saturday, I kept seeing that Johnson guy make catch after catch, manuvering his hands in front of the defender to snatch the ball in a vice grip, before the defender could get to it...thinking all the while that if that guy played for us, Joe would look like an incredible passer! Go Ravens!

**kwothdaraven** · 12-26-2011, 01:54 PM

Aaron rogers has 5 guys that can do that actually. Which makes him look extra spectacular. Jordy nelson, donald driver, jermichael finely, greg jennings, and jones.

And mathew stafford would be nothing without calvin johnson. Half of staffords tds are toss ups to johnson while he's tripled covered. Cj just comes down with it.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2011, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

Overall, I think your premise is sound and insightful. However, it seems like we always directly or indirectly equate the failures of the offense on not having good enough WRs. The last two years, our biggest shakeups roster-wise have been at WR and TE and nothing seems to have improved. That's why I don't think you can totally take Joe off the hook either. Good QBs make mediocre WRs look good. Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers have all taken WRs who nobody really wanted or nobody really knew anything about and turned them into household names (how's that Austin Collie fellow done for you lately?). With the Ravens, it seems to be the opposite. We seem to be constantly looking for good fits in the passing game and constantly swinging and missing and I don't think you can absolve Joe from some of the blame of that.

The point here is that, the pass of a QB is not always going to be dropped right in the WR's hands...Therefore, WR's and TE's HAVE to make plays for the QB by going out of their way for him...Thus, your QB's confidence shoots to the moon because he knows that wherever he throws the ball, his receiver will MAKE A PLAY!!! Joe isn't comletely accurate, but this thread isn't all about Joe, it's about the TE's and WR's NOT putting their bodies in danger or going out of their way for Joe. Last GREAT play I can remember a TE or WR made for Joe was the pre-season when Dennis Pitta jumped over the safety's back to make one of the most remarkable receptions I have ever seen a Raven make!

**The Excellector** · 12-26-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by kwothdaraven

Aaron rogers has 5 guys that can do that actually. Which makes him look extra spectacular. Jordy nelson, donald driver, jermichael finely, greg jennings, and jones.

And mathew stafford would be nothing without calvin johnson. Half of staffords tds are toss ups to johnson while he's tripled covered. Cj just comes down with it.

I did not mention Finley and Jones, because they also have issues with dropping passes (From what I have seen). Finley is one of those guys that will have a great game, not see enough passes thrown his way (For his liking) the next game, complain about not getting the ball enough, get more passes thrown his way the third game and drop half of them.

**wickedsolo** · 12-26-2011, 02:17 PM

Dropped passes are just a morale killer and a drive killer no matter how you look at it.

Having a dropped pass here and there throughout the season is going to happen, but just look at the game on Saturday. Flacco put two on the money to Dickson who just flat out dropped them. Now, how is Flacco supposed to want to go back to Dickson at any point in the near future during that game?

Again, this is why I hark back to the desire to see an offensive coaching staff overhaul this off-season. Jeff Hostler hasn't done anything to warrant him being able to get WR's on the same page, Andy Moeller hasn't done anything to make this OL better and it is significantly better than it was last year from a talent level perspective, and there is no QB's coach on the team right now to help Joe.