2012 Top 50 Free Agents

[Rxdoxx]

This year, he has played well in run support, as usual, but has contributed little to nothing on passing downs, to the point he rarely sees the field when it's an obvious pass situation. In situations that appear to be run situations that turn into passes, JJ has looked slow and has occasionally fallen out of position as well. He can't cover and is not a factor as a pass rusher either.

This is not a knock on JJ at all. He's had a great career and still is a superb run-stuffing, edge-setting OLB. However, to say that 2011 is his "best season" is just simply not true.

Not that I disagree, just adding tweaks by saying that JJ was on the field a lot more last year for a couple of now changed reasons
1) the DC is not so conservative (and JJ is the solid conservative choice)
2) we didn't really have obvious choices to replace him last year.... this year with the pass rushing emergence of McPhee and Kruger, along with BA back healthy, JJ can easily sit out on obvious passing situations

And yes he did look dinged and slowed by the end of last year. Hopefully this year he remains a major force for the unsung lunchpail carrier award.

[RavenManiac85]

lmao and would do you propose we give up to move up about 20 spots in the first round?? Ngata?

I didnt say anything about a trade. Was simply stating that if there was the chance a top RB fell to us, hopefully at 32, that we may grab him as BPA.

[arnie_uk]

I didnt say anything about a trade. Was simply stating that if there was the chance a top RB fell to us, hopefully at 32, that we may grab him as BPA.

no way richardson comes anywhere near 20 let alone 32, possibly top 5 depending on who is picking (unlikely though) but top 12 def

[JustaslowZ06]

Arnie, maybe you should watch the Ravens more. Both Redding and JJ have snaps being taken away from them this year. They are both in their 9th year and 30 and 31 respectively. JJ's play has declined in pass support which has already been stated as he's starting to lose a step.

So do you put out the money to resign those guys, when you have younger players who are already starting to eat up their snaps and excelling? Not that I wouldn't mind either back, believe me I would and maybe you took it as an attack on those 2 players, it's not, it's pure business.

[mfdoom42]

Brent Grimes, Geno Hayes, and Matt Roth are all names I would be interested in, with the usual caveat that the Ravens shouldn't (and won't) overpay for them. Jermichael Finley is my pipe dream this offseason. The logical part of me understands he would cost too much money, will probably be franchised, and is an unnecessary luxury given that we have Dickson and Pitta, but the rest of me is drooling at how amazing it would be to have a dominant TE like Finley.

[arnie_uk]

Arnie, maybe you should watch the Ravens more. Both Redding and JJ have snaps being taken away from them this year. They are both in their 9th year and 30 and 31 respectively. JJ's play has declined in pass support which has already been stated as he's starting to lose a step.

So do you put out the money to resign those guys, when you have younger players who are already starting to eat up their snaps and excelling? Not that I wouldn't mind either back, believe me I would and maybe you took it as an attack on those 2 players, it's not, it's pure business.

i watch every game, and i know they dont play on third downs, if you read my quote i was talking about how good they are at stopping the run, which is what our defense is based on, because then teams have to pass, enter suggs reed j smith webb mcphee etc... and i know they are old hence i said 2 yr deal at most.

Having them also helps our rotation and keeps guys like kruger and mcphee fresh to rush the passer on passing down, which i said... you said play has " declined severly" and i was pointing out thats far from true, they may not rush the passer like the younger guys mcphee and kruger, but thats never really been thier role, their role has been to stop the run first and foremost, and apply pressure secondly, and to a degree they have done the latter with a few sacks each.

they Obviously cant rush the passer at the level of mcphee and kruger, but to say their play has declined severly is just wrong... they do very well, what they are asked to do!

Now can mcphee and kruger be 3 down back, with no rotation if these guys go? i just think keeping them fresh has a lot to do with their success so far, hence my leading towards wanting to resign ONE of redding and JJ, or both if they give a bit of discount to be on a winning team. i donnt think we can lose both as you said in your original post..

Yes is business, but it would be a bad business decision if we let both guys go then teams can start running on us and later in the game mcphee and kruger are a bit tired from the extra snaps and so dont get enough pressure.... You cant win like that. One of these two guys will be back, at least one

[Corey]

Ben Grubbs has been a very good player for us, but I do not believe he will be back next year.

There is no precedent in Ozzie Newsome's history to tie up that amount of money in the OL, particularly in the G position. Looking back over the history of the Ravens, the OL has been the most fungible position grouping on the team. Newsome has CONSISTENTLY allowed OL, especially interior OL, to walk after their first contract. Very rarely has he extended or given second contracts to OL not named Ogden.

Again Grubbs has been excellent for us and has proven his worth by his absence. I personally think it's a very tight call on if he's worth it or not--I would probably not resign him. Call me crazy, but I'm trying to think of it like a GM as much as I can. The Ravens do not have a great deal of cap space and have so many more important contracts to think about--chiefly Rice and Flacco.

This is a good draft for interior OL and again trying to think like Ozzie, using both his past tendencies and his general philosophy, I think "right player, right price" does not mean re-signing Grubbs.

Very true but two things:

1) I think you can argue that Yanda already broke that trend. 3rd round non-probowl player. Thats the exact mold of all the guys Ozzie let walk, ie Chester, Brown, Pashos etc.

2) Ozzie may not tie money into the OLine but he also rarely lets productive 1st round picks walk. I think you can count on one hand how many Ravens first round picks didn't make it to a 2nd contract. Hell, even Boller got a 2nd contract from the Ravens. Off the top of my head, Duane Starks, Travis Taylor and Mark Clayton are the only 3 Ravens 1st round picks in team history that did not make it to a 2nd contract. And 2 of the 3 were clear busts.

[BcRaven]

... Both Redding and JJ have snaps being taken away from them this year. They are both in their 9th year and 30 and 31 respectively. JJ's play has declined in pass support which has already been stated as he's starting to lose a step.

So do you put out the money to resign those guys, when you have younger players who are already starting to eat up their snaps and excelling? Not that I wouldn't mind either back, believe me I would and maybe you took it as an attack on those 2 players, it's not, it's pure business.

Not to get between you and arnie in your debate, but my take is :
JJ may be the harder sign. He's 30 and may look for the most $$$ he can get, in what is possibly his last contract. Especially if the Ravens win the Super Bowl.
My gut feeling is that Redding really likes playing for the Ravens. After years of frustration in Detroit, and one in Seattle, he seems happy to be a contributor to this defense. He's already 31, and perhaps might sign a reasonable contract knowing McPhee will eventually take his job... Bc

[Rxdoxx]

JJ may be the harder sign. He's 30 and may look for the most $$$ he can get, in what is possibly his last contract. Especially if the Ravens win the Super Bowl.
My gut feeling is that Redding really likes playing for the Ravens. After years of frustration in Detroit, and one in Seattle, he seems happy to be a contributor to this defense. He's already 31, and perhaps might sign a reasonable contract knowing McPhee will eventually take his job... Bc

The kicker that I mentioned long ago in this thread is Festivus. And you have brought it out into the open.
All discussions have to be in that light or with that caveat.
If we win the SB, it changes dynamics big time.

We have seen the feeding frenzies that take place for the FAs of winners, not only with players wanting to get paid more, but with teams willing to pay more for a "proven" winner.

I love this entire discussion, none of us really knows, but it sure has covered a lot of interesting twists. And I'm coming back in here because I couldn't agree more with your take....
If the SB is there, JJ will get a premium offer from somebody, and I doubt if we match it even with a home-town discount because the discount will not make the contract "reasonable" only bring it back down to full value. Right player/right price wins out.

Your points on Cory are interesting also, I have no idea how he actually thinks, but just watching some of the recent interviews and attention he is being given, I also think that he is really enjoying finally being on a strong winner and all the accompanying benefits including looking forward to coming to work. So we could see right player/ right price because Cory may be willing to sign not so much for a home town discount but for actual less.

Every year it is a different team. This year with McPhee, Kruger, Pollard **and just a complete aside- sure is nice not seeing massive complaining about our SS in the forum as opposed to last years when Landry bashing was fairly common***

Anyway the only consensus I seem to be getting from the discussion is that both are liked, and while we are talking about them and the exit door, none of us are doing a Cousins and trying to shove them in that direction... we are only speculating if we can afford them, if we can keep them and the Kendrick Vincents are far away from this discussion.

[BcRaven]

The kicker that I mentioned long ago in this thread is Festivus. And you have brought it out into the open.
All discussions have to be in that light or with that caveat.
If we win the SB, it changes dynamics big time.

We have seen the feeding frenzies that take place for the FAs of winners, not only with players wanting to get paid more, but with teams willing to pay more for a "proven" winner.

I love this entire discussion, none of us really knows, but it sure has covered a lot of interesting twists. And I'm coming back in here because I couldn't agree more with your take....
If the SB is there, JJ will get a premium offer from somebody, and I doubt if we match it even with a home-town discount because the discount will not make the contract "reasonable" only bring it back down to full value. Right player/right price wins out.

Your points on Cory are interesting also, I have no idea how he actually thinks, but just watching some of the recent interviews and attention he is being given, I also think that he is really enjoying finally being on a strong winner and all the accompanying benefits including looking forward to coming to work. So we could see right player/ right price because Cory may be willing to sign not so much for a home town discount but for actual less.

Every year it is a different team. This year with McPhee, Kruger, Pollard **and just a complete aside- sure is nice not seeing massive complaining about our SS in the forum as opposed to last years when Landry bashing was fairly common***

Anyway the only consensus I seem to be getting from the discussion is that both are liked, and while we are talking about them and the exit door, none of us are doing a Cousins and trying to shove them in that direction... we are only speculating if we can afford them, if we can keep them and the Kendrick Vincents are far away from this discussion.

Rx, we're on the same page here. Just a few other notes... Remember after SB XXXV that Duane Starks (decent CB, Ravens 1st round draft choice) was given a huge FA contract (Cardinals), but was never as good as the $$$ he was paid. I can see that scenario playing out with JJ too. While he's better at his position than Starks was, I can see some team over-paying him. IMO JJ is much more effective playing in the Ravens defensive scheme than he might be for some lesser team. They (the other team) might expect too much out of him due to his contract.
Cory Redding doesn't "seem" like a money hungry, sell myself to the highest bidder, type of individual. Sometimes in life we can see the value of being in the right place at the right time, even at some of our own expense. I believe he enjoys playing among Ray, Reed, Ngata, Suggs, as a veteran who fits into this talented crowd...and he's loving his playing time here.
It's important to recognize, and stay where youre happy because the grass isn't always greener on the other side... Bc

P.S. The Pollard signing was another brilliant move by Ozzie.

[arnie_uk]

Rice will be resigned, period.
Grubbs will be let walk, Yanda moves to LG and they'll find a RG in the draft(this has been our MO from the get go), or hell dig up Cousins and insert him at RG since that's where he belongs anyway.
Redding and JJ will both be gone. JJ's play has declined severly and we have guys chomping at this playing time already, same with Redding.
Birk will retire and hopefully they address this in the draft to groom under Gurode next year.

yes redding an JJs play has severly declined...