Cam Cameron still sucks

**Gabe** · 11-25-2011, 11:09 AM

It was just frustrating, seeing them march down the field, get to the 1 and then settle for a field goal. I realize SF defense against the run is super, but I can't believe we didn't just go right at them for 3 plays.

**LukeDaniel** · 11-25-2011, 11:13 AM

I'd give him somewhere between a B and a B+.

My only two criticisms of Cam last night were a) the obvious bad calls on those two short yardage plays b) I think we ran the ball too much on the 2nd-and-8s/2nd-7s, etc. I think, statistically speaking, your likelihoods of getting a first down are better with two passes than a run and a pass. We were in quite a few 3rd and shorts, many of which we converted, but a few we didn't. Since Flacco went largely untouched last night, I don't think the normal negative risks that exist were as likely last night.

Overall, I'm satisfied with Cam's efforts last night. Flacco played a really good game, even if his stat line was fairly pedetrian.

**Lime in the Coconut** · 11-25-2011, 11:15 AM

Cameron does not keep feeding guys when they're tearing it up. For instance, I felt as if Boldin had the inside part of the field all game and I don't know, why not keep designing ways to get him the ball when he's open? Same with the TE's, they have to use them more. It was better last night and Flacco played well, but I'd just like to see him go with the guys who are hot.

**bmorecareful** · 11-25-2011, 12:08 PM

Cam called a decent game outside the red zone. The stretch run on 1st and goal from the 1 foot line was idiotic. There are only two sensible play calls there: 1) QB sneak 2) FB dive.

If you want to get cute and call something different, it HAS to involve deception of some sort. Hard play fake, naked bootleg, etc... you WILL lose yardage if you run a slow-developing play that the other team sees coming.

I really think people need to be asking why we have one of the least efficient run games in the league. It's really hurting Cam that his philosophy requires a power run game that we just can't execute. The Ravens SUCK at running the football. And yes, that includes the great Ray Rice, who missed an early cutback inside for the TD on that same play.

If we keep stinking it up in the run game it's going to get really hard down the stretch.

**Dave Lap** · 11-25-2011, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

2nd and goal, less than a yard to go, and he calls an outside run for -4 and a QB draw for no gain. Settle for the FG. What an idiot.

You make it sound like Cam sat down and said "hmm let's see what will lose us yardage on a running play hmmm let's go with that". Dickson missed a block. Players have to execute the play that's called in order for success to happen.

It's always something with the Cam bashers. Two weeks ago it was "Ray Rice must get more touches!!" Then he get's the ball in a critical situation and the play call is "idiotic".

I see this "hindsight is 20-20" stuff all the time. It's easy to look like a genius when your critiquing the play after it's been run. If you are an O coordinator, it's easy to look like an "idiot" when players don't execute.

Another often repeated Cam bashing comment I hear is "we need to be more creative in the red zone!!" Then Ray Rice throws a perfectly executed halfback option pass for a TD against Seattle and I have yet to hear one person (much less a Cam basher) acknowledge that it was a great, creative call and great execution.

The glass is always half empty when it comes to Cam and play calls are always questioned after the fact. When they are successful not much is said.

Some other examples "When are we going to stop running those stupid end arounds? Cam is an idiot!" Then we run two very successful ones (well executed I will add) and nothing is said. Also-It was the fake off the end around that helped spring Rice for his long run last week.

Also "We have to stop throwing those wheel routes to Leach out of the backfield!!" Didn't we do that last night for a huge 3rd down conversion?

I don't think he's perfect but I think he's good and doesn't deserve all the criticism. It's like a witch hunt around here.

We're 8-3! Go Ravens!

**Flacco Seagulls** · 11-25-2011, 12:36 PM

Timeline in my head:

Seattle Game: Cam got too cute in his play calling and abandoned the run. Ray Rice along with others from the team per Terrell Suggs thursday night interview, got upset at Cam's play calling. So much so Ray Rice avoided the media and I am going to assume he kept his complaining in-house.

Cincinnati Game: Play calling seemed oddly enough like it was retro-2008 style play calling, i.e., more runs, ask less of Joe. (main difference is Joe executes now vs. 2008)

San Fran Game: Play calling seems even more like Flacco's rookie year....ask even less of Joe, but expect higher percent of execution. Feed the ball to Ray and Ricky, regardless of if the run is working or not, keep going back to the run.

So here is what I think is happening. Ray Rice was so upset, along with T.Sizzle and who knows who else. I think they kept it in-house, went to Cam, then went to the "Real Coach Harbaugh" who said he will be more involved with the offense this year. Coach talked to Cam, now we have balanced playcalling.

Anyone else think this is a product of Coach Harbs putting his foot down on Cam?

**bacchys** · 11-25-2011, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Lap

You make it sound like Cam sat down and said "hmm let's see what will lose us yardage on a running play hmmm let's go with that". Dickson missed a block. Players have to execute the play that's called in order for success to happen.

It's always something with the Cam bashers. Two weeks ago it was "Ray Rice must get more touches!!" Then he get's the ball in a critical situation and the play call is "idiotic".

I see this "hindsight is 20-20" stuff all the time. It's easy to look like a genius when your critiquing the play after it's been run. If you are an O coordinator, it's easy to look like an "idiot" when players don't execute.

Another often repeated Cam bashing comment I hear is "we need to be more creative in the red zone!!" Then Ray Rice throws a perfectly executed halfback option pass for a TD against Seattle and I have yet to hear one person (much less a Cam basher) acknowledge that it was a great, creative call and great execution.

The glass is always half empty when it comes to Cam and play calls are always questioned after the fact. When they are successful not much is said.

Some other examples "When are we going to stop running those stupid end arounds? Cam is an idiot!" Then we run two very successful ones (well executed I will add) and nothing is said. Also-It was the fake off the end around that helped spring Rice for his long run last week.

Also "We have to stop throwing those wheel routes to Leach out of the backfield!!" Didn't we do that last night for a huge 3rd down conversion?

I don't think he's perfect but I think he's good and doesn't deserve all the criticism. It's like a witch hunt around here.

We're 8-3! Go Ravens!

:word

**BleedPurple92** · 11-25-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Lap

You make it sound like Cam sat down and said "hmm let's see what will lose us yardage on a running play hmmm let's go with that". Dickson missed a block. Players have to execute the play that's called in order for success to happen.

It's always something with the Cam bashers. Two weeks ago it was "Ray Rice must get more touches!!" Then he get's the ball in a critical situation and the play call is "idiotic".

I see this "hindsight is 20-20" stuff all the time. It's easy to look like a genius when your critiquing the play after it's been run. If you are an O coordinator, it's easy to look like an "idiot" when players don't execute.

Another often repeated Cam bashing comment I hear is "we need to be more creative in the red zone!!" Then Ray Rice throws a perfectly executed halfback option pass for a TD against Seattle and I have yet to hear one person (much less a Cam basher) acknowledge that it was a great, creative call and great execution.

The glass is always half empty when it comes to Cam and play calls are always questioned after the fact. When they are successful not much is said.

Some other examples "When are we going to stop running those stupid end arounds? Cam is an idiot!" Then we run two very successful ones (well executed I will add) and nothing is said. Also-It was the fake off the end around that helped spring Rice for his long run last week.

Also "We have to stop throwing those wheel routes to Leach out of the backfield!!" Didn't we do that last night for a huge 3rd down conversion?

I don't think he's perfect but I think he's good and doesn't deserve all the criticism. It's like a witch hunt around here.

We're 8-3! Go Ravens!

:word

**bacchys** · 11-25-2011, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by RavenousD

Anyone else think this is a product of Coach Harbs putting his foot down on Cam?

I think it was a product of the team we were playing and their very impressive turnover differential of +17. We went in with a gameplan to minimize turnover opportunities, and the execution of the players in all three phases allowed us to stick to that gameplan.

**Flacco Seagulls** · 11-25-2011, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by bacchys

I think it was a product of the team we were playing and their very impressive turnover differential of +17. We went in with a gameplan to minimize turnover opportunities, and the execution of the players in all three phases allowed us to stick to that gameplan.

Ok, fair enough on the San Fran game, but we did the same thing against the Bungles. It's not like these two teams were the first top 10 defenses we played this year. The game plan has changed, we are running even when we aren't getting much yards. Cam was NOT doing this style much before these two games.

We all know the players were upset after the play calling after the seattle game. I am just wondering how much Harb's is involved with the offense.

**bacchys** · 11-25-2011, 01:05 PM

I'm not discounting influence from Harbaugh, the players, or both in pushing the run game more, I just don't think that's the whole story.

The funny thing is Cameron was getting hammered on the game thread by some for sticking with the run even though, in the eyes of the critics, it wasn't "working." I thought the run game was working great the whole game. We were pounding into the d-line and getting positive yards on most plays. Getting to Third and 5 or less against a defense like that is a plus. The effects were realized on our penultimate posession as we were able to rip off some good runs, burn the clock, and left an Alex Smith-led offense with the length of field staring them in the face.

**Flacco Seagulls** · 11-25-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by bacchys

I'm not discounting influence from Harbaugh, the players, or both in pushing the run game more, I just don't think that's the whole story.

The funny thing is Cameron was getting hammered on the game thread by some for sticking with the run even though, in the eyes of the critics, it wasn't "working." I thought the run game was working great the whole game. We were pounding into the d-line and getting positive yards on most plays. Getting to Third and 5 or less against a defense like that is a plus. The effects were realized on our penultimate posession as we were able to rip off some good runs, burn the clock, and left an Alex Smith-led offense with the length of field staring them in the face.

I know, I agree that there is a double standard with cam. He runs runs runs, we (fans on the forums) bitch about more passing. He passes passes passes, we bitch that the team is losing it's identity and needs to run more. I HATE THAT. I give Cam a lot of credit. I don't think he should be fired or hope he gets a head coach job somewhere next year. I do, however, think he needs to be reeled in a little from time to time, and believe John has been the one reminding him who the ravens are.