The John Harbaugh Debate Thread (Merged Threads)

**Ngata Nother Suggs** · 11-15-2011, 10:47 PM

I'm watching the 49ers-Giants replay, and they're going to show up big time for Jim to beat John. None of that three days, travel from the west coast short rest crap because win or lose that Bengals front seven is a nasty bunch that is not going to play twinkle toes with the Ravens.

That 49ers game will be another measuring stick for Harabaugh to see how much they want to do the same for him. If his player relationships look like they're openly deteriorating then I think there is a major problem. For now they have to let Cam go at the end of the season, and ask Harbaugh what the hell he wants to do.

For now he looks quite the dickhead for acting like a five year old to the same people he couldn't get enough of last week.

**ballhawk** · 11-16-2011, 12:35 AM

The ravens are still in this thing. Harbaugh has a chance to show his worth. They need to finish this season strong and stay on top of the steelers and Bengals. If they let the division slip away after sweeping the steelers, harbaugh will def be on the hotseat next year. Cameron has already sealed his fate.

**NOLARavenFAN** · 11-16-2011, 09:21 AM

Who threw the Gatorade?

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-16-2011, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by MattSG

Good post. I agree with you. I'm starting to get tired of gatorade show-gate. lol JeromeBettis63, with his Steelers entitlment, automically believes the gatorade bath was a way to show up the Steelers.

He mentions Belichick as an example of winning coaches taking wins in stride, but there is a quote from Belichick saying how he likes gatorade baths because it means you did something good. I guess by his logic, Belichick isn't a winner after all.

You keep putting words in my mouth. I never once said it was to show the Steelers up. You don't even get the point of my post. Corey understands my point and disagrees with it...fine. You simply take off with your normal bashing.

I will speak slow and use small words: my view is please keep doing regular season gatorade baths (it was on tv, thats how I know they did it, sherlock).... i think it is shows the wrong focus. So far the evidence supports me. Two let down losses and losing playoff record.

**SC_Raven_Fan** · 11-16-2011, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by ravensinva

Fine, I don't have proof that he does nothing for offense or defense. The only thing I can based this on is he spend 10 years as a special team coach and 1 year as a defense back coach. From what I've been read, he is not involve with defense or offense game planning.

Don't read much do ya. Harb's increased involvement in the offense was a major statement back in January.

http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/201...-with-offense/

**SC_Raven_Fan** · 11-16-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

You keep putting words in my mouth. I never once said it was to show the Steelers up. You don't even get the point of my post. Corey understands my point and disagrees with it...fine. You simply take off with your normal bashing.

I will speak slow and use small words: my view is please keep doing regular season gatorade baths (it was on tv, thats how I know they did it, sherlock).... i think it is shows the wrong focus. So far the evidence supports me. Two let down losses and losing playoff record.

Flacco is 4-3 in the playoffs. Which losing record do you mean?

**MattSG** · 11-16-2011, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by JeromeBettis63

You keep putting words in my mouth. I never once said it was to show the Steelers up. You don't even get the point of my post. Corey understands my point and disagrees with it...fine. You simply take off with your normal bashing.

I will speak slow and use small words: my view is please keep doing regular season gatorade baths (it was on tv, thats how I know they did it, sherlock).... i think it is shows the wrong focus. So far the evidence supports me. Two let down losses and losing playoff record.

I understand what your point is. You took it as a diss, that's why you have a problem with it and post about the event. You don't know why they did the gatorade shower. So you are being ignorant.

I didn't ask you to show proof that the Ravens gave Harbaugh a gatorade shower after the game, I asked you if you can prove that all the coaches you listed that apply, haven't gotten a non Superbowl gatorade shower.

You will find that Mike Tomlin recieved one in 2009 after winning just the AFC championship. So, by your logic, that shows your team didn't have the right mindset.

As I stated before, Parcells was doused with gatorade after every win in their Superbowl year in 1986. Did the team during the regular season not have the right mindset?

Belichick is quoted as saying he likes the gatorade showers. Belichick must not have the right mindset.

I'm just showing how your logic is flawed and that you are a hypocrite. You say in giving their coach a gatorade shower, it shows the mindset of the team; well your own team did the same thing in 2009.

As far as your evidence, it doesn't support your claim. First off, how do you know our team haven't won the SB under Harbaugh because of not having the right mindset. As people have shown, getting a gatorade shower in a game other than the Superbowl doesn't prove your team doesn't have the right mindset to win a championship.

Are you trying to imply that getting a regular season gatorade shower is the cause of the team not winning the SB? That would be an example of the post hoc fallacy. That doesn't make sense. lol Because our coach recieved a gatorade shower during the season, and we went on to not win the SB that year, it's has to be because of the regular gatorade shower?

**RavenA.SHARP** · 11-16-2011, 04:58 PM

I never thought he was a good choice for Billick's replacement.The fact that the Raven's have been to the playoff's the last 3 yrs. is great,but im sure that our talent and veteran leadership at key positions has alot to do with that as well.I don't think for ONE second that Harb's "football IQ" is more advanced than Billick's,as I've seen him get outcoached several time's in the past few yrs.The HC is responsable at the end of the day for the preparation and overall"product" on the field,and losing to 3 team's under 500 this year is just plain sad...Im not saying to run out and re-hire Billick..but i think we may be wasting time with the Harbaugh we got....

**JeromeBettis63** · 11-16-2011, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by SC_Raven_Fan

Flacco is 4-3 in the playoffs. Which losing record do you mean?

The one where he has no playoff wins against the Steelers and never makes the Super Bowl.

**festivus** · 11-16-2011, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Corey

3) Get over the gatorade bath.

The reason why Steelers fans on the internet like to talk about the Gatorade bath is because they *know* why it was done.

Beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh with a healthy Roethlisberger was a huge moment for this team and its fanbase. Sure, it wasn't a big deal in PIT and wouldn't have been if the shoe had been on the other foot, because they had consistently bounced the Ravens out of the playoffs for several years now.

So. It was a big monkey off our backs. And they know it. Mocking the Gatorade bath is exactly the same as saying "Big deal." Pretending a big rivalry game - bigger for us than for them, too - is not a big deal, after losing. Very playground-ish.

Which is fair enough, I guess, on their boards. A typical unsophisticated playground-style sulking after a loss. A Steelers fan on a Ravens board understands, though.

And if a Steelers fan thinks the Gatorade bath means the Ravens won't win the Super Bowl this year, well, last time I picked my nose I got a huge booger out of it, which I think means the Steelers won't win the Super Bowl this year. And we're both probably right.

**Dirt1** · 11-16-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by RavenA.SHARP

I never thought he was a good choice for Billick's replacement.The fact that the Raven's have been to the playoff's the last 3 yrs. is great,but im sure that our talent and veteran leadership at key positions has alot to do with that as well.I don't think for ONE second that Harb's "football IQ" is more advanced than Billick's,as I've seen him get outcoached several time's in the past few yrs.The HC is responsable at the end of the day for the preparation and overall"product" on the field,and losing to 3 team's under 500 this year is just plain sad...Im not saying to run out and re-hire Billick..but i think we may be wasting time with the Harbaugh we got....

I tend to agree. I have also never been much of a Harbaugh fan. I think Billick was a better HC than Harbaugh. The thing Harbaugh has that Billick never had is a credible NFL QB. Jim Caldwell looked like a decent HC before this season too.

**MattSG** · 11-16-2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by RavenA.SHARP

I never thought he was a good choice for Billick's replacement.The fact that the Raven's have been to the playoff's the last 3 yrs. is great,but im sure that our talent and veteran leadership at key positions has alot to do with that as well.I don't think for ONE second that Harb's "football IQ" is more advanced than Billick's,as I've seen him get outcoached several time's in the past few yrs.The HC is responsable at the end of the day for the preparation and overall"product" on the field,and losing to 3 team's under 500 this year is just plain sad...Im not saying to run out and re-hire Billick..but i think we may be wasting time with the Harbaugh we got....

I'm overall a fan of Harbaugh, so far. Did Billick ever coach the Ravens to 3 straight playoff appearances? I don't remember off the top of my head how many times his teams went to the playoffs two years in a row. I remember making it one year, and then having a bad season after. We also never had offenses under Billick. He had a part in drafting Boller, from what I read he wanted Boller.

Billick had talent to help him as well. He had a prime Ray Lewis, Ogden, and Heap. He had still highly productive players in S. Sharpe and R. Woodson as well.

I'd give the nod to Harbaugh when it comes to clock management. Billick was bad at managing the clock. In my opinion Billick was better at handling the media. Harbaugh is thin- skinned.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty confident in Harbaugh's football IQ. A good example of his football IQ is that going into last week he lead the league in challenging plays.

My biggest problem with Harbaugh is that he doesn't assert himself. If Cam for example is doing a bad job, he doesn't step in and correct what's going on. Atleast that is how it seems from an outside observer.

I like both Harbaugh and Billick, but I would give the nod to Harbaugh. I think he is more consistent.