Ed Dickson - Flacco needs more control

**GOTA** · 11-15-2011, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jayc00

Joe will never have the control as long as Cam is here.

:word

You're right. Cam just doesn't have faith in Joe to let him loose.

**Firststater** · 11-15-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

:word

You're right. Cam just doesn't have faith in Joe to let him loose.

You are right. And that is the plot behind the story that we are witnessing. The outcome will depend upon who has the biggest balls: Cam, Joe or Harbaugh, or maybe someone higher Cam to stick with his guns and suffer the consequences, if any. Joe to just take control and assume the consequences, if any, or Harbaugh resolves the issue one way or the other.
So far he seems to side with Cam while also saying Joe has control.

Cam has never had faith in Joe and one could assume the same is the case with Oz given his comments earlier in the year about Joe having to step up this season

**Corey** · 11-15-2011, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Firststater

Sorry, you misunderstand. You assume something I made no reference to here. I didn't mention Joe not being "rah, rah". I am talking about the OP and this player-discussed lack of control issue on the field and leadership qualities in general. Where do you see a reference to "rah rah'?

Acting and taking responsibility is for your actions is not "rah rah". Taking responsibility, control and leadership when someone says you have it is not "rah rah." These are the issues I have been talking about. Read what I said, not something you made up.

Because all the players that you refrence as "leaders" on our offense are of that mold. How do you know that Vonta Leech has taken what you refer to as a leadership role? He doesn't do interviews all that often, the only way to assume it is because you see him all excited on the sidelines.

Samething with Ray Rice. I wonder if he was as humble as Flacco, would you still view him as a leader. Probably not.

Leadership is not something that can be seen just watching from the sideline. Since I am assuming that you've never been in the Ravens locker room, I AM assuming that watching the sidelines and postgame interviews is where you are building your perception of who is a leader and who is not.

In that limited access that we have, the vocal personalties are going to shine through and the humble guys are not.

**Firststater** · 11-15-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Corey

Because all the players that you refrence as "leaders" on our offense are of that mold. How do you know that Vonta Leech has taken what you refer to as a leadership role? He doesn't do interviews all that often, the only way to assume it is because you see him all excited on the sidelines.

Samething with Ray Rice. I wonder if he was as humble as Flacco, would you still view him as a leader. Probably not.

Leadership is not something that can be seen just watching from the sideline. Since I am assuming that you've never been in the Ravens locker room, I AM assuming that watching the sidelines and postgame interviews is where you are building your perception of who is a leader and who is not.

In that limited excess that we have, the vocal personalties are going to shine through and the humble guys are not.

You responded, but did not answer my question. Where did I say "rah rah" in anything I said?
Every stated is a now a presumption. Answer the original question. Otherwise this is ended.

**palukaraven** · 11-15-2011, 10:57 AM

John Harbaugh seems like the type of coach who backs Cam Cameron all the way, in all of his decisions despite of what Joe or other offensive players might say. It reminds me of a scenario where "children are to be seen and not heard," where John and Cam lay down the ground rules, and take player suggestions/criticisms with a grain of salt. I suppose it depends on who the "player" is, as I think some players have more gout than others.
Regardless, there are definitely problems between Cam and the offensive players, specifically Flacco. How often do we see glimpses of Flacco talking with Cameron or reviewing plays or in-game shots with Cameron on the sidelines? Granted we only see a few moments per game of Flacco on the sidelines, however, one would think he would be a student, studying defensive formations and in-game photos with Cameron to help adjust the offense. Unfortunately, I think this goes back to the Cam-Joe lack of relationship, which I believe is essentially hurting the offense.

**Knox Harrington** · 11-15-2011, 11:11 AM

I'm no fan of Cam Cameron, and think a change should be in order. But does anyone else see how inconsistent and erratic Flacco has been this year? Not sure you can blame Cam for Flacco missing Torrey Smith on their 1st drive or whiffing on that pass to Pitta before the half against the Seahawks. Those are throws the QB has to make in this league, PERIOD.

Bottom line is that the play has been average and the coaching average. Hence the reason this team is 6-3, when they should be 8-1.

**palukaraven** · 11-15-2011, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Knox Harrington

I'm no fan of Cam Cameron, and think a change should be in order. But does anyone else see how inconsistent and erratic Flacco has been this year? Not sure you can blame Cam for Flacco missing Torrey Smith on their 1st drive or whiffing on that pass to Pitta before the half against the Seahawks. Those are throws the QB has to make in this league, PERIOD.

Bottom line is that the play has been average and the coaching average. Hence the reason this team is 6-3, when they should be 8-1.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the ball. Granted, they are 6-3, but really how good are they? Flacco has missed quite a bit of throws he should have made, but on the other hand the receivers have dropped a lot of balls they should have made as well. On top of this, you have an offensive coordinator who seems to be trying to force Flacco to get into a rhythm with his receivers, hence all the passing. Either that, or Cam is trying to put the success or failure strictly on Flacco's arm to prove his point. Who knows?

**Sua Sponte** · 11-15-2011, 12:26 PM

You also have to look at what players are on the field before Joe can take control and audible. It's hard to audi to a run if you have 3 WR 1 TE and no FB, and vis versa, 1 WR 2 TE 1 RB and a FB (to a pass)
Another big factor is watch the play clock when the call is finally in, it is normally -15, not much time to audible in that situation when you get to the line, everyone get set, read the D and then try to audible and move guys around with 3 seconds left to read the D adjustment you wind up with a INT because you don't have time to read the OLB standing in your passing lane before the snap.

**festivus** · 11-15-2011, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Sua Sponte

You also have to look at what players are on the field before Joe can take control and audible. It's hard to audi to a run if you have 3 WR 1 TE and no FB, and vis versa, 1 WR 2 TE 1 RB and a FB (to a pass)
Another big factor is watch the play clock when the call is finally in, it is normally -15, not much time to audible in that situation when you get to the line, everyone get set, read the D and then try to audible and move guys around with 3 seconds left to read the D adjustment you wind up with a INT because you don't have time to read the OLB standing in your passing lane before the snap.

This is important. Just because Joe can "audible" doesn't mean he isn't restricted by personnel or the formation dictated by the play coming in from the sideline.

Also I'm tired of reading about Joe being "inaccurate." He misses receivers sometimes, more often than Aaron Rodgers, but he didn't suddenly forget how to throw an out or stop route since Mason left. He's demonstrated an ability to throw down the middle of the field recently and we know from seasons past he can hit the outside routes regularly. He misses sometimes, particularly deep, but that happens.

**Sua Sponte** · 11-15-2011, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

but he didn't suddenly forget how to throw an out or stop route since Mason left.

I'm glad you pointed that out, it was on my mind.
What happened to Joe's almost automatic, I know Mason left, but you mean to tell me the coaches have not taught another WR to run a come back or quick out. With Torrey's speed and ability to stretch the field (ie. getting CB's on their heels) I would imagine that the comeback would be a prefered route for a 1st down. Joe throws one of the best balls on comebacks, yet it is missing. ???

**DarienA** · 11-15-2011, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by akashicrecorder

When a wide receiver (OK, tight end) is saying you need to run more... my god, you need to run more. A lot more.

:word

**terps19** · 11-15-2011, 01:04 PM

IMO this is NOT the year that we should let Cam live and die by his decisions. THIS is the year that someone needs to step in and have a conference with Cam about his play calling because something needs to change. With all the talent on this team, there is no reason the Ravens should not get home field for at least one game in the playoffs and if that doesnt happen I would consider it a failure. The defense is aging, and quite frankly this is probably the easiest schedule the Ravens have faced in a while, next year might not be so kind. THIS is the year to make it happen, its NOT the year to sit back and let it all ride on Cam and his decisions.