Offensive v. Defensive Coordinator Fame & Fortune

[Shas]

So I was thinking about how much crap Cam is getting from us, the fans. And how it seems like we're on the verge of saying goodbye to Cam if the offense continues to sputter. Or, some of us are already there.

And that got me to wonder who would I like as a coordinator. Hmm, couldn't think of one. Then I thought, who were the really good offensive coordinators in the league who I would like my coordinator to be just like. Hmm, that's hard, too.

And then I dawned on me how much differently the DC vs. OC position is perceived in this league.

If I look at the top offenses, very few bring to mind a coordinator who people credit. Typically, the credit goes to the big name QBs -- Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, etc. You don't tend to think of the coordinator on those teams. Coincidently, or not, the teams whose offenses are racking up yards tend to have an offensive-minded head coach who is really pulling the strings. I'm talking about Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Sean Peyton, Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, Gary Kubiak, Hue Jackson, etc.

When you think of bad offenses, I think most of the fans in those cities are constantly bad mouthing the coordinator. Cam comes to mind. Brian Schoettenheimer.

When you look at the really good defenses in the league, there is often a feeling that the coordinator plays a big role and it's the coach as much if not more than the players who get the credit. Rex, who is essentially the coordinator. Pagano. LeBeau. Wade Phillips. Fitzgerald.

On the flips side, with the lowest ranking defenses, first, people don't seem to care as much if the offense performs well, and two, I don't hear as much bitching about bad d-coordinators. New England, Green Bay, Colts, Rams, Raiders. I'm not sure I could even tell you who the D-Coordinator is in a lot of those cities.

In short, does it seem like credit for good offense goes to the players, primarily the QB, and discredit goes primarily to the coordinator? While conversely, good defense is often credited to the coordinator, and bad defense is more often blamed on lack of talent?

My sense is that Cam is expected to fix the Ravens offense, but if he does, we'll all be crediting Joe with finally becoming elite.

In saying all this, I know that a lot of people were on Mattison's back last year. True. But the Ravens were never a bad offense. I think the Ravens are a bit of a different case because of a 12 year tradition of great defenses.
A different standard.

[SPRavensFan]

I think most fans base their criticism of Cam based what they see from the defense.

With Rex and the core talent, the defense was stout in all angles. Greg Mattison comes along, and he uses a different front, and the defense slides. Then Pagano is hired and the D is back to the form we're all used to seeing.

Cam's problem is he doesn't adapt the offense to fit the strengths and weaknesses of the players. Going with the no-huddle on Sunday was a step in the right direction.

[NCRAVEN]

I think most fans base their criticism of Cam based what they see from the defense.

With Rex and the core talent, the defense was stout in all angles. Greg Mattison comes along, and he uses a different front, and the defense slides. Then Pagano is hired and the D is back to the form we're all used to seeing.

Cam's problem is he doesn't adapt the offense to fit the strengths and weaknesses of the players. Going with the no-huddle on Sunday was a step in the right direction.

+1

[wickedsolo]

You know, the biggest issue that I have is not that I think Cam is a bad coordinator. I know that his offense is capable of putting up points. The problem is just when things aren't working he doesn't adjust and evolve with the game. He doesn't seem to rise to the occasion when facing a difficult test from a defense. Jacksonville was a perfect example as was the Jets.

This offense may be young, but they're capable and experienced in all of the right places. As many have said, they don't need to put up a ton of points to win games. This defense isn't going to allow too many 20+point games. The problem lies when you have 2 or 3 3-n-out's in a row and the defense is on the field for 20 minutes in a 30 min half. Can't have that.

The Cardinals game, IMO, displayed that Cam adjusted the scheme. THAT is what they need to do each week. Take what the defense gives you, sustain drives, and if you get a FG then you get a FG, but you get points and you keep the defense rested.

[festivus]

I always thought it was amusing that everyone thought so poorly of Cavanaugh even though, with almost no talent on offense, we somehow managed to manufacture the league's premier rushing attack in '03 and got all the way to the playoffs.

I suppose that's part of the reason my opinion of Cameron is so low. We have more talent at virtually every position but we are not more productive.

It shouldn't be that way.

[wickedsolo]

I always thought it was amusing that everyone thought so poorly of Cavanaugh even though, with almost no talent on offense, we somehow managed to manufacture the league's premier rushing attack in '03 and got all the way to the playoffs.

I suppose that's part of the reason my opinion of Cameron is so low. We have more talent at virtually every position but we are not more productive.

It shouldn't be that way.

Definitely a valid point.

I feel the same way.

[BcRaven]

You know, the biggest issue that I have is not that I think Cam is a bad coordinator. I know that his offense is capable of putting up points. The problem is just when things aren't working he doesn't adjust and evolve with the game. He doesn't seem to rise to the occasion when facing a difficult test from a defense. Jacksonville was a perfect example...

Yes, until the second half of the Cardinals game, all he did was that French dance... the "Cam - Cam" :D ... Bc

[sailorsam]

interesting how Ravens D-Cords became H-coaches (Marvin, Nolan, Rex) and our O-Cords kinda disappeared (Cavanaugh? Fassel was in the UFL)
even defensive assistants (Del Rio, Smith, Singletary) got HC gigs

I suspect Norv Turner might be available in a few months...

[wickedsolo]

Norv Turner sucks as a HC, but as an offensive coordinator and QB's coach he's pretty darn good.

Before going to San Diego he was the Niner's OC and he was working really well with Alex Smith.

[Dave Lap]

That's a good observation. Very true. When the offense is kicking ass it's usually the QB who gets most of the credit and when the defense is outstanding the coordinator gets more kudo's. I think it's because the QB is such a high profile position.

While on the subject of coaches and coordinators: Most of the time, in the NFL, it's the players that make the coaches and not vice versa, IMO. At the NFL level the quality of coaching is pretty high across the board. The ones who fail are usually unable to maintain good relationships with players or have poor players but it's not their lack of x's and o's knowledge that loses them their job. There are always a few true duds but they are the exception.

Pagano is an exception in the plus category. He took basically the same team from last year and with a couple of good additions, made it noticeably better.

[lowrider]

As a fan it's easy to second guess the plays that are called. In fact it's what we do. Example: The pass play to TS that set up the winning FG. Had they not connected I would have been upset because cam didn't call a higher percentage pass play, maybe a 10 - 15 yard out pattern to boldin. I mean it worked all day prior to that. But the play to TS worked and I was elated about it. In fact I think my initial reaction was "HELL YEAH". So I guess the point I am trying to make is that when the players execute, the OC looks like a genius. When they don"t, well not so much.

If I have one complaint about cam it is his ability to adjust to what the defense is doing. Against the cardinals he had to adjust or else. I want to see more of that going forward.

[sailorsam]

Hue Jackson, former Ravens asst, is now running the Raiders
as I recall he coached the McClain/Rice/McGahee gang in '08.