The Ray Rice taunting penalty...

**Galen Sevinne** · 10-31-2011, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

If you get a chance to see the replay of the Pollard flag, you will see he comes up behind the Cardinal, who is out of bounds and leaned over, and gives him a little shove with his legs. Just a little one, but it was avoidable and completely inappropriate. Very suggestive, taking advantage of an opponent in a vulnerable position and suggesting something very foul, the way he did it.

It was ugly, and I'm sure the ref saw the poke and that's why he threw the flag. If I felt Pollard had anything but the most superficial connection to the Ravens I would have been embarrassed, but as far as I'm concerned he's a hired hand and will be gone soon enough.

I called it from the upper deck before the flag was thrown. I watched it on DVR this morning and saw the same thing. You hit the nail right here: "Very suggestive, taking advantage of an opponent in a vulnerable position" . To me this is the essence of taunting and nothing remotely similar to what Rice did.

**DarienA** · 10-31-2011, 02:27 PM

Hmmm thanks for the clarification, as for the non-call of the glancing blow to Flacco's head? Two comments:

1. Didn't seem very glancing to me.
2. Brady would have probably gotten the flag. ;)

**Shas** · 10-31-2011, 02:33 PM

I'm sticking with my point of view that you can celebrate with a yell and a dance, but if you do it in the face of an opponent, as Rice did to Carter, and as Carter did to Rice, that's taunting. Maybe not the way we'd like to see taunting called, but that's the deal. Should have been offsetting. By the way, the rulebook is pretty comical in describing it...

The use of abusive, threatening, or insulting language or gestures to opponents, teammates, officials, or representatives of the League Violations will be penalized if any of the acts are committed directly at an opponent. These acts include but are not limited to: sack dances; home run swing; incredible hulk; spiking the ball; spinning the ball; throwing or shoving the ball; pointing; pointing the ball; verbal taunting; military salute; standing over an opponent (prolonged and with provocation); or dancing.

The use of baiting or taunting acts or words that engender ill will between teams. Violations will be penalized if any of the acts occur anywhere on the field. These acts include but are not limited to: throat slash; machine-gun salute; sexually-suggestive gestures, prolonged gyrations; or stomping on a team logo.

**Shas** · 10-31-2011, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by DarienA

Hmmm thanks for the clarification, as for the non-call of the glancing blow to Flacco's head? Two comments:

1. Didn't seem very glancing to me.
2. Brady would have probably gotten the flag. ;)

#2, definitely

#1, not sure. only saw it replayed in slow motion, so it was impossible to tell. The hand came straight down across the face mask. Who knows. I'd say it was more glancing than, say, the time Haloti broke Ben's nose.

**jefe96** · 10-31-2011, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Lap

It looked to me like the Cardinal who made the tackle started "flexing" and screamed "yeah!" as a way to signify that he made a good play. Rice seemed to mimic him by also screaming "yeah!" (to no one in particular) as if to say, "Dude I just made 7 yards on a run" I have more of a right to celebrate than you do!

It would have been a good no-call, or maybe a verbal warning, but not an unsportsmanlike penalty.

Agree. He was basically mocking the lame Cardinals player who thought it would be cool to celebrate making a tackle after a 7 yard gain. Don't know if that was his first ever NFL tackle, but that was pretty comical to begin with. If what Rice did was deemed as taunting then why isn't the Cardinals player also flagged? What he did was essentially stand over top of Rice and scream and flex his arms.

**arnie_uk** · 10-31-2011, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

Should that be the standard? And was he simulating fucking the Panthers in the ass when he did it? Because that's what I saw Pollard do.

i dont think what he done was stimulating "i fucked u in the ass" tbh, i see what your talking about i just dont think thats what he meant by it

**festivus** · 10-31-2011, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

i dont think what he done was stimulating "i fucked u in the ass" tbh, i see what your talking about i just dont think thats what he meant by it

Get some punctuation and come back after you see the play again.

**Ravenboy2003** · 10-31-2011, 02:44 PM

Triplette's crew is notorious for calling ticky-tack fouls. And there were plenty of them yesterday. I thought Rice did in fact scream towards that guy's face.. and after Pollard had already been called for it, Rice should have known better..

But the flag that really irked me was on Reed's INT, Lardarius got called for holding down field and all the replays clearly showed he did nothing of the sort, in fact, the WR was grabbing his shirt most of the way down the field.

The way I look at it, we got two horrible officiating crews in back to back weeks. Hopefully we don't end up with a scab crew for the big game in Pittsburgh. Here's hoping it's Ed "Guns" Hoculi and his guys. They call the most fair game in the league that I can recall.

**Ravenboy2003** · 10-31-2011, 02:46 PM

Oh, and watching our game yesterday with all the ticky tack BS and flags, then watching Steelers-Pats maul each other all day with very little laundry? WTF was that? You'd think the league would try to make things a little more even when it comes to officiating. Mike Carey and his boys swallowed the whistle on plays where Triplette's entire crew would have been heaving the hankies.

**Shas** · 10-31-2011, 02:52 PM

I know I'm in the minority, but I thought they were calling a good game -- including all the defensive holding and the one offensive PI call on Arizona -- until about three minutes into the fourth quarter when they flagged Webb foir interference then came back four minutes later with the Rice taunting call .

Those were really bad. When they were called, with the game on the line, made it seem worse.

I also thought it was ticky tacky to flag McKinnie for lining up in the backfield twice. I've seen far worse from OT's.

What did everyone think of the roughing the passer call that they nailed Campbell for when he tossed Joe to the turf? I thought that was close to being legal, because he was there as the ball was released. Didn't seem all that obviously late to me.

They were so focused on that, the line judge missed a penalty on the Ravens when LaQuan Williams was split out wide right on the line of scrimmage, covering Pitta, who was also on the line four yards outside Oher.

But overall, I thought the Jags crew was far worse, with the late flags they sheepishly dumped onto the field well after the play.

**goodandfast** · 10-31-2011, 02:56 PM

The good news is, they won't be calling a single taunting penalty next week. Those kinds of displays are what the NFL loves about Ravens/Steelers.

**goodandfast** · 10-31-2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

I know I'm in the minority, but I thought they were calling a good game until the fourth quarter when they botched the Rice taunting call and the Webb interference call.

Those were really bad. I also thought it was ticky tacky to flag McKinnie for lining up in the backfield twice. I've seen far worse.

They were so focused on that, the line judge missed a penalty on the Ravens when LaQuan Williams was split out wide right on the line of scrimmage, covering Pitta, who was also on the line four yards outside Oher.

But overall, I thought the Jags crew was far worse, with the late flags they sheepishly dumped onto the field well after the play.

The first taunting penalty on Pollard was bogus too. Unless someone pulls a TO, and runs down to the fifty yard line and uses the balls as a prop to specifically show up the opposing team as a whole, I don't see the point in calling taunting when you allow the players to celebrate after every positive play. Sometimes its a celebration, others its taunting? Bogus, pure and simple.