Tuesday's Training Camp Notes

**festivus** · 08-17-2011, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

As for Burgess, tough call there. He's made the team on his ability to play special teams but with the decline in emphasis there, it's too early to call. He's on the bubble for sure. Don't see them keeping both him and Philips.

I think the real potential victim of the new kickoff rule may be Marcus Smith.

Too many decent WR's on the team; *all* he brings is his ST ability.

**RavenScallywag** · 08-17-2011, 08:24 PM

Ok, I'll take it back. I think it was more that Gooden was a 3rd round pick, and there WERE comparisons made with Ray, though not to the extent of him being the next Ray. He just drew a lot of comparisons with their U connection and both wearing 52, and I think Ray tutored Gooden early on.

Ellerbe is a UDFA. He's had some mental mistakes, but has also flashed the talents to be something more. The play that sticks out most to me for Ellerbe is the INT TD return against the Rams in preseason. He started showboating and got his ass HANDED to him by Harbaugh. One of the best Harbaugh moments I can remember.

**RavenScallywag** · 08-17-2011, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

I think the real potential victim of the new kickoff rule may be Marcus Smith.

Too many decent WR's on the team; *all* he brings is his ST ability.

Marcus Smith/LaQuan Williams still has value as a gunner on punt coverage. The guys who are most at risk are the "wedge buster" type players. That's why Burgess might be at risk, at least as far as ST is concerned. If he can contribute on D, he'll be fine.

**Jeremiah W** · 08-17-2011, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by RavenScallywag

Marcus Smith/LaQuan Williams still has value as a gunner on punt coverage. The guys who are most at risk are the "wedge buster" type players. That's why Burgess might be at risk, at least as far as ST is concerned. If he can contribute on D, he'll be fine.

I was suprised Burgess did not get more of a look last year. It seemed like he played one snap on D every other game but never in a pass rushing situation, even with JJ clearly playing injured and was gassed. Burgess has a very good size/ speed ratio, showed very good tougness and a nose for the ball on special teams. He was not just a wedge buster. I am glad to see him back this year and hope Pagano does a better job of using all of his players.

**wickedsolo** · 08-17-2011, 08:41 PM

I just think it's really hard for the coaching staff to keep McClain off the field. He's one of the hardest workers on the defense. The guy may have a lot of growing to go, but he gives 100% every time.

From a coaches perspective, it's really hard to sincerely justify keeping a guy like McClain on the bench.

**wickedsolo** · 08-17-2011, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jeremiah W

Gooden is in fantastic shape and works as hard as anyone. His issues are injuries and he is sort of a tweener, not really built to be a 3-4 ILB. He is built like a 4-3 WLB or a big SS, but is not heavy enough to take on OL or FB blocks. He does get reps in the nickle as the cover backer though, and looked decent in the KC game when used as an edge rusher. Also he was a 3rd round pick. He was never expected to be the next Ray Lewis. That is like calling Harold Minor or Isaiah Rider "Baby Jordan".

He weighed in over 240lbs.

While he's not a monster, he's not Cato June or something.

I'd also contend that it doesn't matter what anyone's skill set is because we run so many different formations and have so many different packages.

The issue is that Gooden has very little football intelligence. He's super athletic, but he over pursues and bites on everything.

**Jeremiah W** · 08-17-2011, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

He weighed in over 240lbs.

While he's not a monster, he's not Cato June or something.

I'd also contend that it doesn't matter what anyone's skill set is because we run so many different formations and have so many different packages.

The issue is that Gooden has very little football intelligence. He's super athletic, but he over pursues and bites on everything.

Part of the reason he does not start is mental, and the over pursuit stuff is legit. I think 240 is not enough to be an effective Jack ILB in the 3-4 and he is not one of the 3 best LBs when we go 4-3. The 3-4 Jack has to be able to take on Gs and FBs and stop them cold at the LOS. Gooden does get PT as the coverage LB though and IMO has been a pretty effective role player on the D. Not real good or bad, but servicable.

**wickedsolo** · 08-17-2011, 09:21 PM

I wouldn't trust Gooden in coverage at all.

To me, he's nothing more than an athletic depth player that probably could be a really good ST'er.

He can't beat out two un-drafted guys.

I love the athleticism, but the guy is too soft and displays very little football IQ.

I like Jameel McClain a lot, but I don't think that a viable replacement for Ray is on the squad yet. I'm really hoping for someone like Shane Skov or Tank Carder next year.

**purplepoe** · 08-17-2011, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I wouldn't trust Gooden in coverage at all.

To me, he's nothing more than an athletic depth player that probably could be a really good ST'er.

He can't beat out two un-drafted guys.

I love the athleticism, but the guy is too soft and displays very little football IQ.

I like Jameel McClain a lot, but I don't think that a viable replacement for Ray is on the squad yet. I'm really hoping for someone like Shane Skov or Tank Carder next year.

You are dead on with Gooden. His coverage skills are dreadful as he's out of position far too often.

He just isn't a very good football player.

He looks the part, but that's about it.

PP

**wickedsolo** · 08-17-2011, 09:29 PM

I mean, regarding the weight, Ayanbadejo was doing a bang up job as the other ILB beside Ray prior to getting hurt last year and he barely weighs 230lbs.

If you don't put yourself in position to make a play, you won't.

The only play I've really seen Gooden make is running down AP when we played the Vikes. That play was SUPER impressive, but that's about all I've really seen from him.

**NjRavensFan** · 08-17-2011, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

:grbac:

Do we have any sense of how much we think Kruger is looking awesome at training camp because he's playing against a couple tackles that seem like they're playing Jr Varsity ball?

- C -

I would be more worried that this was the case had he not had such an impressive showing against the Eagles