Mark my words......

[Ravens0587]

Just speaking for myself here, but I don't dislike CrazyRavens because of his football opinions, rather the ice on his car thread

[ClericBlackDave]

McNair has proved he can't win when it counts most, and has no more upside.

Honestly, I think this is what bothered me about McNair. Whether it was as a Titan or a Ravens, I feel as though he is too often willing to throw short of the goal, whether is a 1st down or a touchdown.


I can't stand seeing an offense not take its chances early on to give the defense a lead.


The don't-lose offense worked when Jamal was good; and maybe it'll work again now with McGahee


But when it came down to the passing game carrying us last year, it couldn't. Either the playcalling was weak, or McNair's arm looked dead, or his decision making was always throw 2-3 yards short of the 1st down or TD. Its frustrating.


Add to that that if we hadn't signed him maybe we could have kept Pashos or AD, and that makes me question the signing.


Really the argument comes down to whether you think the 13-3 record was more McNair or the amazing effort we got from the #1 defense in teh league. I'll take the latter over the former.


Boller got the short end of the stick. Starting with bad o-lines, poor WRs, and years where Heap went down, Jamal went down / in jail, years when the defense underachieved because of a weak d-line and injuries to marquee players like Reed, Ray Lew, Boulware, etc.


All QBs deal with scenarios that aren't ideal; but Boller definitely got the short end of the stick.


Give him even just 4 more games to start with the Mason-Clayton-DWill-Heap combo and he'll produce; his last 10 starts show he can. Just open up the playbook.


McNair has 1-2 more years before he retires a Tennessee Titan. I can't hop on that bandwagon, but if he starts for the Ravens, I'll support him.


I was rocking a McNair away jersey at M&T for the home Loss to the Colts. However, haven't worn it since.

[crazyraven]

Just speaking for myself here, but I don't dislike CrazyRavens because of his football opinions, rather the ice on his car thread

Actually last summer you had to be warned by one of the Mods about your temperament towards me and it was all because of my opinions on Boller. Nice try with the ice though it was amusing. You wouldnt believe how many supporting PM's I received about the ice. However those who didn't like it took it out on my reputation points. What a Bunch of fags.

[ladyraven127]

"I guess I'll go with the fact that it shouldn't even be here. There is a forum that is dedicated to QB talk."

On this I agree.

Crazy . . . . stop calling people names.

[sailorsam]

1) The Raven's drafted Troy Smith because he was the best available at that point. I doubt he was a big focus of the Ravens before the draft.
2) If they had gone into the draft looking for a future QB they would of moved up to get Quinn or someone else in the second round.


the Ravens DID make an effort to trade up for Quinn but didn't want to give up next year's 1st round pick (they gave up a 1st to pick KBol, as I remember).

there's a huge opportunity for any of these guys (Olson, Smith, Finnerty) to get an NFL job here.
and I agree, given McNair's past (and age), he'll miss some time this year and give KBol one more shot to be the Ravens #1 qb.

I agree he's a tease; makes just enough plays to get your hope up, then falls down on 3rd and 8. I really think he's just a late bloomer and will settle down (like Vinny T) and be a Real Quarterback before it's over with.



*I'm not from Maryland, I'm from the Eastern Shore.*

[ClericBlackDave]

the Ravens DID make an effort to trade up for Quinn but didn't want to give up next year's 1st round pick (they gave up a 1st to pick KBol, as I remember).

I dont agree with that. Ozzie schooled Phil Savage into giving up more than he wanted to for Quinn. Perhaps a little revenge for the Ngata extortion. But how are you going to get Quinn there w/o giving up a 1st round pick next year? It was posturing plain and simple.

there's a huge opportunity for any of these guys (Olson, Smith, Finnerty) to get an NFL job here. and I agree, given McNair's past (and age), he'll miss some time this year and give KBol one more shot to be the Ravens #1 qb.

I agree with that. I dont even think McNair goes past this year unless he makes a deep run into the playoffs. And honestly, I dont expect that unless he shows more killer instinct in the passing game this year, AND his arm comes back alive.

I agree he's a tease; makes just enough plays to get your hope up, then falls down on 3rd and 8. I really think he's just a late bloomer and will settle down (like Vinny T) and be a Real Quarterback before it's over with.

Partial agreement. He's not really a tease though, he's a late bloomer. I don't know what about his last 10 starts was a tease; he was actually rather consistent in producing more TDs than mistakes, which is all this team needs to succeed.



Overall, I think Boller will have a fine NFL career, and I personally hope its in Baltimore, as we will NEVER get a pick high enough to get a true talented starter. Troy Smith was good value at that pick, but at best will be another Mike Vick type who's mobility and style is more of a long term hindrance than a short term benefit IMHO


I dont think McNair is here next year to tell you the truth. Not because of performance, but because of his contract, his age, and health. And, because of the age of the team.

[festivus]

I dont agree with that. Ozzie schooled Phil Savage into giving up more than he wanted to for Quinn. Perhaps a little revenge for the Ngata extortion. But how are you going to get Quinn there w/o giving up a 1st round pick next year? It was posturing plain and simple.

Last year Ozzie thought there was a risk Phil would trade out to someone else who would take Ngata. The 4th rounder was a modest investment to make sure we got our guy. Others have claimed we were ripped off, too, and I think you & they may be over-thinking an otherwise ordinary transaction.

If we could have swapped up 9 or 10 spots in exchange for next year's 2d rounder to get Brady Quinn, I wouldn't have had a problem with that.* If the offer was something in that ballpark, why shouldn't Ozzie have made it? What would make that "posturing plain and simple"?

* - Until I saw the penis-holding photo, thoughtfully linked on one of these threads, I think one of the ones about Troy Smith. Now I'm traumatized.

[Mobtown]

Honestly, I think this is what bothered me about McNair. Whether it was as a Titan or a Ravens, I feel as though he is too often willing to throw short of the goal, whether is a 1st down or a touchdown.


I can't stand seeing an offense not take its chances early on to give the defense a lead.


The don't-lose offense worked when Jamal was good; and maybe it'll work again now with McGahee


But when it came down to the passing game carrying us last year, it couldn't. Either the playcalling was weak, or McNair's arm looked dead, or his decision making was always throw 2-3 yards short of the 1st down or TD. Its frustrating.


Add to that that if we hadn't signed him maybe we could have kept Pashos or AD, and that makes me question the signing.


Really the argument comes down to whether you think the 13-3 record was more McNair or the amazing effort we got from the #1 defense in teh league. I'll take the latter over the former.


Boller got the short end of the stick. Starting with bad o-lines, poor WRs, and years where Heap went down, Jamal went down / in jail, years when the defense underachieved because of a weak d-line and injuries to marquee players like Reed, Ray Lew, Boulware, etc.


All QBs deal with scenarios that aren't ideal; but Boller definitely got the short end of the stick.


Give him even just 4 more games to start with the Mason-Clayton-DWill-Heap combo and he'll produce; his last 10 starts show he can. Just open up the playbook.


McNair has 1-2 more years before he retires a Tennessee Titan. I can't hop on that bandwagon, but if he starts for the Ravens, I'll support him.


I was rocking a McNair away jersey at M&T for the home Loss to the Colts. However, haven't worn it since.

Too much of the success or failure of this team is placed on the QB, be it Boller or McNair or Wright or Smith or whoever.

Whether we as fans choose to recognize it or not, there are perhaps dozens of other players and coaches who ultimately contibute to the outcome of a season.

I often wonder if ANY quarterback will ever get a fair shake in this town.

[ClericBlackDave]

If we could have swapped up 9 or 10 spots in exchange for next year's 2d rounder to get Brady Quinn, I wouldn't have had a problem with that.* If the offer was something in that ballpark, why shouldn't Ozzie have made it? What would make that "posturing plain and simple"?

Its posturing because a 2nd rounder this year or next year wouldn't equal the value of moving up 9 or 10 picks, and we all know Ozzie wouldn't give up a 1st. Our 2nd rounder this year was so late it was like an early third


So why negotiate? To make sure Phil gives up his 1st to move up and get Quinn. Plain and simple. A 2nd rounder was never going to cut it, and we were never going to give up another 1st.


And we were on the phone with Quinn, NOT the cowboys. Posturing, my friend.


If I had to have Quinn is the 1st or second OR Smith in the 5th I would take Smith every time. And in both cases, I don't know what there exact role with the team would / will be in '07

[festivus]

So you say. It looks like overthinking, to me, not that you're the only one.

[ClericBlackDave]

Actually, I messed up reading the chart. Looking at the draft value chart if we had traded away our 1st rounder and second rounder, that'd work . . .


So maybe we'd have traded our 2nd for him . . . however, the Cowboys got much better value with the Browns trade than trading w/us.


Guess I gotta admit that I was at least half wrong

[purplepoe]

Dave

You're nothing if not persistent.

Anything to believe that Ozzie wasn't interested in Quinn, right?

I mean, it couldn't be that the Ravens know that Boller isn't in their plans and that a guy was falling in the draft that they liked.

Nah, it was Ozzie "schooling" Phil Savage. Gimme a break.

And it's obvious that you've never embraced McNair. What, with your constant whining about him really a Titan and him going back to Tennessee to retire a Titan.

Who cares if we would've kept AD or Pashos this season if we hadn't signed McNair. What makes you think Boller would've all of sudden won more road games in one season then he had combined in his career.

This whole thing that Boller would've done the same as McNair has gone over the ridiculous point.

Please explain how McNair's arm "died 3 times last year". You love to point out the ONE (and only) thing Boller has over McNair. And that's arm strength. And it means nothing when you have zero pocket presence and just about zero poise. I sat and watched McNair hit Clayton streaking down the field in KC. The pass to Clayton in Pitt was a freakin laser on target. But yea, because Boller can throw the ball farther, he's a better option.

There are many successful QBs both current and retired that have won huge games without having monster arms.

The Boller experiment is all but over. You don't bring in an over 30 QB and sign him to a big contract if Boller is in your future plans. You just don't. They could've signed a vet backup this time last year but opted not to. Ozzie and Co. haven't offered Boller any sort of contract. Why do you think that is? You would think they would've offered a 2 or 3 year extension by now, don't you?

Boller as a backup to McNair right now is certainly our best option. I certainly don't think Troy Smith will offer us anything more than what Boller can.

It really comes down to this. I cannot for the life of me see how anyone can say that they think Boller is gonna have a fine career after the play we've seen from him.

PP