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  1. #49

    Re: Grading the Draft



    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    But the people giving it an "A" at this point are giving it an "A" based on Ozzie Newsome and this team's track record drafting rather than looking at the actual players.
    I *am*!?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    Looking at the actual players, Grubbs is a sure thing to start at RG, we hope. Past that, there is an outside chance that a lot of these guys don't even make the team.
    No. It is much more likely this draft deserves an A than that "a lot of these guys don't even make the team." The one who stands out as most risky, of *all* the picks, is Troy Smith.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    You don't get an "A" for drafting projects until those projects pan out.
    Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap. Everything I read about Yanda makes him look like a good bet. Day 1 starter? Barring injury, no. Multi-year starter? Yes. I think it's much more likely Yanda will be a starter then that Smith will be a starter, but Smith was the last pick of the 5th round, so it's ok with me.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  2. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Eastern Shore
    Posts
    1,863

    Re: Grading the Draft

    GreenWave has a good point; losing AD hurts on special teams as well as D, and Barnes & Burgess could at least be gunners for a while.
    the point on many might not make the team is well taken; shows how deep the Ravens are, which is a good thing. that's why they can draft an OG in round 1 and a KR/WR in round 3; they can upgrade based on available talent instead of desperately trying to fill holes. the Brownies getting their tackle and qb is sweet, but no 1st rounder next year will cost them.
    impossible to grade a draft for 4-5 years, but this one looks pretty good to me.

    "Ka-Boom?"
    "Yes, Rico, Ka-Boom."




  3. #51

    Thumbs up Re: Grading the Draft

    I give this draft a "B" on paper right now.

    I see Grubbs as a starter from week 1. I think the steals might be Figurs and McClain. I esp like McClain b/c of his size and he is said to have good hands too.

    Think of what this could do in the redzone...esp the 10 yrd line in. We line up in an I-formation and the defense has to consider the FB being a pass option...it adds a whole new dimension to the offense. Plus his size should make him able to take on LBs w/ no problem.

    As for Smith, if he is a true Heisman talent then he will be FAR ahead of where Boller was during the camps and have a quicker progression. If not, they took a flier and lost nothing.

    FM




  4. #52

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Dude, Stop saying we have a gaping hole at RT.

    We do not...Terry probably won't be all-pro over there, but I am very confident he can be sufficient.

    We have problem with depth...but I am sure that is what Yanda is for.

    And I don't see the comparison with the 2004 draft...we have gotten nothing...NOTHING from that draft. Do any of the 3 guys left even play special teams?

    In this draft we likely got 2 starters, a swing man on the OL, a KR/PR and 2 athletic defenders for special teams at first at the very least.

    I may have a problem with how they went about getting those guys, but I can't say that they didn't fit needs and weren't good players.
    Last edited by Raveninwoodlawn; 05-01-2007 at 12:56 PM.




  5. #53

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Dude, Stop saying we have a gaping hole at RT. We do not...Terry probably won't be all-pro over there, but I am very confident he can be sufficient.
    I agree -- I don't know why so many of us are writing off Terry. Yes, I know he's more comfortable at LT than at RT, but we traded up to get him, so Ozzie obviously saw something he liked. He'll be okay.

    I'm excited that we have someone who will likely take Vincent's place at RG.




  6. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Foggy Bottom, DC
    Posts
    500

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by highwater View Post
    I agree -- I don't know why so many of us are writing off Terry. Yes, I know he's more comfortable at LT than at RT, but we traded up to get him, so Ozzie obviously saw something he liked. He'll be okay.

    I'm excited that we have someone who will likely take Vincent's place at RG.
    Plus I wasn't totally sold on a workout warrior like Joe Staley. I prefer my draftees to go up and succeed against big time competition. We got as much a sure thing as you can draft in Grubbs.

    A tackle didn't fall to us and there wasn't one in the 2nd round that Ozzie thought was worth trading up for. It happens. Am I concerned about our depth there? Yes. But most teams have depth issues at 1 position or another.

    We still might be able to sign someone that is an ok back-up.




  7. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,081

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanman View Post
    I give this draft a "B" on paper right now.

    I see Grubbs as a starter from week 1. I think the steals might be Figurs and McClain. I esp like McClain b/c of his size and he is said to have good hands too.

    Think of what this could do in the redzone...esp the 10 yrd line in. We line up in an I-formation and the defense has to consider the FB being a pass option...it adds a whole new dimension to the offense. Plus his size should make him able to take on LBs w/ no problem.

    As for Smith, if he is a true Heisman talent then he will be FAR ahead of where Boller was during the camps and have a quicker progression. If not, they took a flier and lost nothing.

    FM
    Eric Crouch won a Heisman Trophy, was he a great pro prospect? Archie Griffin won two Heismans, was he a great pro prospect? Heisman Trophy means nothing.




  8. #56

    Re: Grading the Draft

    UK...you are right in saying that a Heisman winner does not always translate into a good NFL player. I am saying that Smith did deserve the Heisman last year, based on the criteria, and I think he has talent and prolly more natural ability compared to Boller at the same time in their careers. Based on that, I think Smith should progress better and quicker than Boller.

    FM




  9. #57

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Dude, Stop saying we have a gaping hole at RT.

    We do not...Terry probably won't be all-pro over there, but I am very confident he can be sufficient.
    No-one is writing Terry off.

    But who is our backup to Terry and Ogden? And that is assumign that Terry will even be able to make the shift effectively to RT? We have no depth there and a gaping hole no matter how you see it. Keep drinking the purple kool-aide but until terry shows he can switch over to RT effectively I'm not sold, and even if he does, we know that he or ogden can go down and we have zero depth whatsover.

    The frustrating thing is we now have an over abundance of depth in the interior. Good to know Vincent and Flynn will hopefully be phased out longterm, but I would have rather seen Staley instead of Grubbs considering that we have plenty of G's and only 2 tackles, one of which hasn't proven he will be a good RT.


    Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap

    ROFL. Todd Heap was far from a project. Just like Grubbs is far from a project. Its about every round after that that I'm concerned about.


    By all means, lets give this draft an "A" before any of it pans out. But other than Grubbs, there wasn't another pick that strikes me as a homerun. Our new FB from bama is probably the most likely to pan out IMHO but the others, the jury is out


    It could be a draft like 02 or it could easily be a draft like 04


    Which is why I give it a "B"




  10. #58

    Re: Grading the Draft

    LOL...lacking depth is no way the same as a "Gaping Hole".

    A "Gaping Hole" is what we had at WR until 2005.

    Terry was a 2nd round OT with a lot of athleticism...while I was worried about him last year, he proved to be at least OK at LT while Ogden was out last year. I think if you are seriously worried about him not being at least an average RT despite doing OK at LT, then you are just looking for reasons to worry...are you saying that we either had to draft a player that played RT during his college career (which I beleive Yanda did) or sign a player that has played RT? In that case, why draft Staley, who is basically a carbon copy of Terry except Staley is smaller? Staley is a light, pass blocking first LT in college...Terry was a pass blocking first LT in college who has at least had some reps over on the right side.

    I completely agree about depth...although I seriously disagree (So would Decosta and the rest of the Ravens personel department) that we have no other OT's on the roster. That is exactly what Yanda was drafted for. Yes we have no proven depth which is always a worry, but it is not no mans land like you are making it out to be.




  11. #59

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    ROFL. Todd Heap was far from a project. Just like Grubbs is far from a project.
    Wrong.

    Heap and Yanda, and Smith and Chester for that matter, are or were all *projects* at their chosen positions. Raw talent, not NFL ready. Grubbs is not a project. He is a day one starter. Figurs, at least as a return man, is not (supposed to be) a project. He can return kicks week 1.

    Now that you know what I meant by 'project', read this part of my post again and perhaps it will make more sense:

    > Nah. You still get an A, if the projects look like good bets, a la Todd Heap.
    > Everything I read about Yanda makes him look like a good bet. Day 1
    > starter? Barring injury, no. Multi-year starter? Yes.

    There you go. I gave credit for value picks, even if the chosen player wasn't NFL ready, I assessed whether that spot in the draft was a good spot to roll the dice on that particular player.

    Buck up, man! This is the part of the year when everyone should feel good!
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  12. #60

    Re: Grading the Draft

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    I implied that what you perceive as the 'industry' does not give a good representation of players values and I certainly don't consider Kiper as a good measure of every players' value. Kiper has his niche and his niche is that he knows something about pretty much every draft prospect on both days of the draft and the UDFAs. His value boards and his mocks are not his strong suit.

    I don't know whether anyone in the industry had him as a day two prospect before the Florida game, people kinda tend to update their boards and so you lose their previous work. But I'm sorry it is just a fact that round one was at no point ever a true representation of Troy Smith's actual draft value. Teams set the value of players not the online draftniks, online draftniks have shock fallers, those who actually talk to scouts know who the fallers are likely to be and don't have 'shock fallers'. Smith was not a shock at all and was never a round one prospect and borderline day one before the Florida game. He was higher because he won the Heisman Trophy and had a shot at leading his team to a National Title, not because he was a great pro prospect, he never was.

    As for calling you an idiot, it may have come off as backhandedly calling some people here idiots but I was actually referring to the vast swathes of online draftniks who think that having their own sites means they have a clue about what's going on, I apologise if people took it as me calling them idiots. I don't have a great clue of what's going on myself but I have friends who work with current and former NFL scouts so have at least some grasp of the glaring errors of some of these draftniks, Troy Smith was an example of these guys getting something horribly wrong right from the start.
    Appreciate the apology.

    FWIW, I think you're misrepresenting "facts" here in these statements...
    "I don't know whether anyone in the industry had him as a day two prospect before the Florida game"
    "But I'm sorry it is just a fact that round one was at no point ever a true representation of Troy Smith's actual draft value."

    You can only say this as "fact" if you either:
    a) accept those considered draft "experts" in the media - the Mel Kipers and Mike Mayocks and Don Banks of the media - as guys that can judge these things accurately AND show that none of them felt he was a first round prospect, or
    b) don't accept that, but can show that the scouting departments of 32 teams considered him not a first round prospect prior to the Florida game.
    I would guess you can't do that unless you know something I don't. Certainly you can't prove the first one since it's not true. Most media guys I was reading and listening to were saying Smith was a late first or early second round prospect.

    FWIW, I do accept these guys' judgements of players because despite what some of their shortfalls may be, they're largely at least in the ballpark.

    The other thing worth noting is that no one here - or at least I - was saying that Smith was a lock first round prospect. I was saying Smith was easily regarded as first day prospect somewhere between end of first round and into the second. He plummetted down everyone's boards after the FLA game where everyone then had him thrown around between the 2nd and 4th. Then after the Sr Bowl and combine he was somewhere into day two on most boards.

    - C -




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