OT - Article on Steelers' Transgressions

[Kyle Cactus]

I think this is all sour grapes.

They have a model organization, so of course other lesser organizations are going to be jealous and sling rocks and arrows in their direction.

It happens with all great dynasties.

As much as it galls us to say it, the Steelers organization is one of the tops in all of sports. I agree with R52; this is nothing but sour grapes on the part of Ravens fans.

All sour grapes? There may be some sour grapes, which was probably inevitable with a thread like this, but the motivation for this thread was historical curiosity. Many of the replies have been insightfull.

I would completely agree that the Steelers have a quality organization.


Edit: Apparently while I was writing this others wrote to similar effect. Sorry for the redundant post.

[psuasskicker]

What Maverick said.

Did those who think this is Ravens sour grapes actually read the article?

Yeah, and I wrote a diatribe on how much crap was in it...did you read that?

The Steelers have some players that today are considered dirty. So what? Who doesn't? Maybe they have a few more today than some other teams. That doesn't mean that for 40 years they've perpetuated dirty play. The Patriots were caught cheating a couple years back. Prior to their getting caught, they won 3 SBs in five years. After, they've won none. Does that mean they're one of the dirtiest organizations in the sport over the previous four decades?

Every team has their ups and downs. The Steelers are no different. And that's the point the article completely misses...they're no different than any other team.

Except that they win.

- C -

[JeromeBettis63]

The namesake here is also the name of an RB accused of rape.

Hello irony ...

And when you assume superiority and consider yourself above criticism, they have a word for that.

Narcissism.

The woman who accused Bettis was proven to be a liar...hello irony ...same thing happened here...(I think there is a lot of evidence here that Ben's accuser consented to something she later regretted...it happens at college bars every single day...of course, no means no...but not when its the next day...why do you think Rooneys stood by him? Why do you think Prime Time, Michael Irvin, Coach Mariaucci and many other NFL players have not bashed him?...because they know how many girls hang out in bars and hotels and throw themselves at pro-athletes....you dont get to say no the next morning out of embarrassment or the hope for money or because it didnt turn out to be your fantasy of being swept up into his life) Do you have any idea how many athletes get FALSLY accused? Ask Kobi, ask the Duke Lacrosse players...and the list goes on and on and on....You guys give Ray Lewis a pass on being accused of taking part in a murder but totally accept the accusation that Ben forced himself on this girl....I hate the Lakers, Kobi is one of my least favorite BB players...but I dont believe his accuser. If cops or DA's could make these accusations stick on pro-players, they would...it could make their career...so, no, I dont really believe this girl..for several reasons, including some I have named.

The Steelers of the 70's won their SB's on a level playing field...one of their primary rivals in those days was the Oakland Raiders...the Raiders used stickum for catching and steroids for lifting...they prided themselves in being mean, nasy and DIRTY. It was an accepted part of their persona...so, save the crying, save the self-righteous blabber, and especially save the accusation of "narcissim" because I didnt make a claim anywhere close to your definition of "superiority and above criticsim"...perhaps you should look up the meaning of "strawman" when involved in a debate/discussion, because you are guilty of the tactic.

[HoustonRaven]

Yeah, and I wrote a diatribe on how much crap was in it...did you read that?

And I disagree with your article.

Your article completely minimizes (almost ignores) the overt steroid use of the 1970's Steelers, something Jack Lambert, Jim Haslett and Terry Bradshaw all have commented on at length on. Most teams were discouraging their use while the Steelers embraced it and directly benefited from that use.

I will give the organization credit that when they do have a d-bag, they are quick to jettison them -- unless your last name is Roethlisberger.

To call an honest, unbiased examination of past transgressions as crap is mind boggling and offers nothing to the debate. If you want to counter with your own facts, go for it. But to make an editorial comment and use such as food for rebuttal misses the mark.

And the coach was caught cheating, not "The Patriots".

[HoustonRaven]

The woman who accused Bettis was proven to be a liar...hello irony ...same thing happened here...(I think there is a lot of evidence here that Ben's accuser consented to something she later regretted...it happens at college bars every single day...of course, no means no...but not when its the next day...why do you think Rooneys stood by him?

Because Ben is the team cash cow. The Rooney's have been quick to get rid of d-bags on the and I have, up to this point, given them credit for that stance. But when it came to the team leader, the double standard quickly was exposed.

Why do you think Prime Time, Michael Irvin, Coach Mariaucci and many other NFL players have not bashed him?

I guess you missed Peter King's recent article where he spoke to two dozen of Ben's teammates and not one of them had his back during that whole fiasco?

You guys give Ray Lewis a pass on being accused of taking part in a murder but totally accept the accusation that Ben forced himself on this girl

If you bothered to read up on the Ray Lewis trial and case, you'd know that even the prosecutor didn't think Ray had involvement in the murders and that he was simply in the wrong place, with the wrong people at the wrong time. He plead guilty and actively helped the prosecution.

It's a lot easier to give someone a pass when they are contrite, worked WITH the prosecution and has lived everyday since in the best manner possible.

The Steelers of the 70's won their SB's on a level playing field

Your issues is with Lambert, Haslett and Bradshaw, not with me. Because they are all saying it was anything but a level playing field.

It was an accepted part of their persona...so, save the crying, save the self-righteous blabber, and especially save the accusation of "narcissim" because I didnt make a claim anywhere close to your definition of "superiority and above criticsim"...perhaps you should look up the meaning of "strawman" when involved in a debate/discussion, because you are guilty of the tactic.

Relax, slappy. Me pointing out the irony of your name was simply that, irony. I am fully aware Bettis was set up and have a great deal of respect for him (well, except for his broadcasting skills. He stunk).

But you do not seem to be able, as I have pointed out, to look at your team under the umbrella of all the facts in an objective manner. You seem to want to explain away and excuse the past transgressions instead of condemning them and moving on.

Something the author of the article was trying to do as well.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I HIGHLY doubt that the Steelers were the only team doping up in the 70's...steroids were relatively new and most didn't know long term affects.

Honestly, IMHO, in those days, it wasn't looked at much differently than Creatine and many of the other "supplements" that players take today. Many things have been legal only to be banned later...like PSU, I can't sit here and call them "cheaters" when what they did or took wasn't illegal at the time because you can't say other teams weren't using them as well.

[HoustonRaven]

I HIGHLY doubt that the Steelers were the only team doping up in the 70's...steroids were relatively new and most didn't know long term affects.

I would argue the Steelers were one of, it not the first NFL team to realize their "potential". As you said, they were relatively new at thew time.

And of course, they were not the only ones using them.

I can't sit here and call them "cheaters" when what they did or took wasn't illegal at the time because you can't say other teams weren't using them as well.

When did anyone call them cheaters? Nobody is saying they need to vacate their SB wins, have an asterisk, etc.

All this author is doing is pointing out the historical accuracies in contrast to their media image as being this class organization.

[purplepoe]

And the coach was caught cheating, not "The Patriots".

Umm, spygate was the single most under reported scandal in the history of the league.

Why? Because the league made it that way by destroying the tapes and pretty much issuing a gag order for EVERYONE involved.

It brought into the question the integrity of an entire dynasty during the NFL's explosion of popularity and ratings.

And saying it was "the coach" and not "The Patriots" is ridiculous.

PP

[JeromeBettis63]

Because Ben is the team cash cow. The Rooney's have been quick to get rid of d-bags on the and I have, up to this point, given them credit for that stance. But when it came to the team leader, the double standard quickly was exposed.

First, you are making an assumption that its a double standard...and history says your wrong. Second, the Steelers don't need Ben to make money, they made money with Neil O'Donnell and Tommy Maddox at QB. If you were honest and objective you would look at your own statement and realize that the Rooney's have a consistent pattern of getting rid of problem players, even young, hugely talented, Super Bowl MVP's who end up being a roadblock on their way back to the Super Bowl. When this first came out last year, Steeler fans wanted to dump big Ben...several polls showed 60% and more wanted him gone...but as more and more information came out about the situation, and when the Rooney's, who know far more about it than you do stuck by him, the fans came around (before he returned to the team...the first day he jogged on the field in game 5, the Steeler fans were behind him), The accusation didnt prove to be credible....period.


I guess you missed Peter King's recent article where he spoke to two dozen of Ben's teammates and not one of them had his back during that whole fiasco?

I guess you missed him recanting this morning? He clarified that it wasnt ANY of Bens teamates and that some of the issues were, "Ben wouldnt sign a jersey for me"...again, a story that looks horrible at first report, but is media garbage and hater food in the end.


If you bothered to read up on the Ray Lewis trial and case, you'd know that even the prosecutor didn't think Ray had involvement in the murders and that he was simply in the wrong place, with the wrong people at the wrong time. He plead guilty and actively helped the prosecution.

It's a lot easier to give someone a pass when they are contrite, worked WITH the prosecution and has lived everyday since in the best manner possible.


You prove my point here...you look at one case through rose-colored glasses...and the other case through your steeler hate glasses. I, on the other hand, dont think ray was guilty...as a fan, I love how ray plays the game and preaches the Word, I am objective...but if you never bothered to read the later reports about Bens case, you just took the accusation report and ran with it. Thanks for proving my point.

Your issues is with Lambert, Haslett and Bradshaw, not with me. Because they are all saying it was anything but a level playing field.

The playing field was level. Thats all I claimed and its true. What the steelers did was legally available to all...its simply a fact.

Relax, slappy. Me pointing out the irony of your name was simply that, irony. I am fully aware Bettis was set up and have a great deal of respect for him (well, except for his broadcasting skills. He stunk).

Nah, you got busted for your stupid claim and now you are backpedaling.

But you do not seem to be able, as I have pointed out, to look at your team under the umbrella of all the facts in an objective manner. You seem to want to explain away and excuse the past transgressions instead of condemning them and moving on.


Sorry, you seem unable to look at the Steelers objectively because you hate them and envy their fans for the enjoyment we are having as we prepare to watch our team battle for a 7th Super Bowl Title.

Something the author of the article was trying to do as well.

The author is trying to get attention and boost his career.

[psuasskicker]

Your article completely minimizes (almost ignores) the overt steroid use of the 1970's Steelers, something Jack Lambert, Jim Haslett and Terry Bradshaw all have commented on at length on. Most teams were discouraging their use while the Steelers embraced it and directly benefited from that use.

My article minimizes it because it was legal and rampant back then. To think the Steelers were the only ones doing it is simply naive. They get the most press about it because they won the most back then. They were far from the only ones doing it. And even if they were the only ones doing it, they were playing within the rules, so how exactly does this make them out to be a dirty organization?

To call an honest, unbiased examination of past transgressions as crap is mind boggling and offers nothing to the debate. If you want to counter with your own facts, go for it. But to make an editorial comment and use such as food for rebuttal misses the mark.

And the coach was caught cheating, not "The Patriots".

a) There are facts everywhere in my debate. Just cause you're choosing to ignore them doesn't mean they aren't there.

b) The coach cheating argument doesn't work. It was more than the coach that was cheating. And the Steelers have a couple bad apples here and there as well, it's not "The Steelers" as a whole.

- C -

[HoustonRaven]

My article minimizes it because it was legal and rampant back then. To think the Steelers were the only ones doing it is simply naive.

No, they were not "rampant" back them. The didn't become rampant until the 80's. Anabolic and androgenic steroids were created in the 30's but never made their way to the states until the late 1960's. It was relegated to body building until some (not all) sports teams, mostly football teams, started using them in the early 70's.

And I never claimed the Steelers were the only team using them. But there is strong evidence they were the early football pioneers, along with the Raiders.

The coach cheating argument doesn't work. It was more than the coach that was cheating. And the Steelers have a couple bad apples here and there as well, it's not "The Steelers" as a whole

And I ask this to PP as well .... how doesnt it work?

I am not one to believe in conspiracies since people, by and large, are too stupid to keep their mouths shut so to say it was more than the coach I will respond by saying where is the proof?

Yes, the league wanted the cheating scandal quiet and gone quickly but that does not translate into a massive conspiratorial cover up.

The people in the know of that incident must be in the dozens, maybe even in the hundreds.

You mean to tell me that all of those people are being kept quiet? It's the NFL, not the mob.

You talk in the mob and you get whacked. You talk in the NFL, you get a huge book deal.

[purplepoe]

No, they were not "rampant" back them. The didn't become rampant until the 80's. Anabolic and androgenic steroids were created in the 30's but never made their way to the states until the late 1960's. It was relegated to body building until some (not all) sports teams, mostly football teams, started using them in the early 70's.

And I never claimed the Steelers were the only team using them. But there is strong evidence they were the early football pioneers, along with the Raiders.



And I ask this to PP as well .... how doesnt it work?

I am not one to believe in conspiracies since people, by and large, are too stupid to keep their mouths shut so to say it was more than the coach I will respond by saying where is the proof?

Yes, the league wanted the cheating scandal quiet and gone quickly but that does not translate into a massive conspiratorial cover up.

The people in the know of that incident must be in the dozens, maybe even in the hundreds.

You mean to tell me that all of those people are being kept quiet? It's the NFL, not the mob.

You talk in the mob and you get whacked. You talk in the NFL, you get a huge book deal.

I didn't say it was a massive cover up.

And you assuming it was dozens or hundreds who knew the details.

I disagree.

We'll never know for sure but I stand by my belief that the cheating in spygate was something that gave them a clear edge and that scared the NFL beyond what any dirty hit or steroid scandal could.

PP