3-11 against the cream of the AFC

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Cream of the AFC=Colts, Pats, Steelers.

His record is 1-11 when the opposing starting QB plays.

I love you Harbs and Joe, but that record is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE any and every way you slice it.

Do I expect a start like Brady and Belichek had with the Pats? Of course not.

But hell, I would like to at least be approaching .500 against those teams...if you consider yourself elite, you have to at least split against those teams.

[RavenScallywag]

Bisciotti needs to make a trip to all the ivy league schools with his checkbook...

We need to fund studies to figure out...

HOW THE FUCK CAN WE BEAT PITTSBURGH?

Because we sure can't figure it out on our own.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Bisciotti needs to make a trip to all the ivy league schools with his checkbook...

We need to fund studies to figure out...

HOW THE FUCK CAN WE BEAT PITTSBURGH?

Because we sure can't figure it out on our own.

I have a couple ideas.

How about number 1, you don't alienate your LT by giving away your spot to a guy who is not worthy of that spot.

How about number 2, you realize that while having all these old vets who have a lot of past success, you need somebody who can actually run away from a DB out there at WR. And if you sign a guy who can, maybe we should use him.

How about number 3, after playing these lame mind games with Gaither in the offseason, you come up with a better backup plan than Moll/Cousins so you don't have to move Yanda out to RT and have Chester in there.

Or number 4, thinking that rushing 3 guys, with no deception is not a good defense to run constantly.

[RavenScallywag]

Point is, every year we THINK we know what we need to beat the Steelers...last time around, it was smaller, more agile CBs, better pass rush, better protection, and better WRs.

Where did that get us today? Our CBs were burned, our pass rush ate Ben most of the game, but not on the one play that really mattered, our protection was still sucky, and our WRs dropped the balls

[mrfactoid]

54 games he's played. He's not Young qb anymore.Plenty of playoff experience more than 90% in last 3 years still can't get it done. Or even control and play a good game against the big boys.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Here's the thing.

We cannot get a petition to move out of the AFC North so we don't have to play Pittsburgh again.

We can't get Tonya Harding to take out Peyton Mannings' knees before our games.

We can't kidnap Brady and stuff him in a trunk during our pre game warmups.

We are going to have to figure out a way to beat these teams if you want to get to the dance. The Colts (last year), Steelers and Patriots have fucking rookies running free down the damn field making plays, while our big money guys are dropping passes in the end zone and on 4th down (Mark Clayton anyone?).

Beating the little sisters of the poor is great...it'll get you into the playoffs and usually, we can beat the teams in the wild card round.

But you can't count on beating the Chiefs or Dolphins all the way to the dance...you are going to have to beat one or more of those teams, and if you can't do it, well, you failed.

Honestly, I think Harbs and Joe may be victims of thier own early success...sorta like Billick was. Getting as far as we did in year one set the bar incredibly high and each following playoff failure without even getting back to that point (the championship game) feels worse than the previous year.

[The Fanatic]

Both of Woodlawns posts here are what it all boils down to.
They are spot on.
These numbers and facts are what has to be looked at and evaluated by the front office.

There is definitely a trend here that needs to be broken.

Unless something drastically different is brought to the table to change the trend, we will continue to be a one and done or two and through type team.

There's a whole lot of opinions flying around on here about a variety of stuff including replacing Flacco, firing Harbaugh, firing the coordinators, getting speed, getting younger, etc., etc.

Some of it is valid, and some is not.

I highly doubt Flacco gets replaced, and nor do I think he should.
He's only just completed his third year, and by all means does not suck, has alot of valuables with what I believe is still alot of untapped abilitys.

I'd be shocked if Harbaugh was let go.
Nobody lets a coach go that has made it to the plsayoffs three straight years.
A move like that is Al Davis like, and starting over ain't the answer here IMO.

I think we've already begun to get younger in some areas and are continueing to move in that direction.
Guys like Flacco, Oher, Grubbs, Dickson,Ngata, Webb, etc.

This certainly needs to continue, and almost certainly will as several guys are either at the end or seriously beating down the door.


IMO the recurring theme here has been the offenses inability to put points on the board in big games against the the teams you have to beat to get to the promised land.

We've seen it every year when it gets down to crunch time.

We've brought in different guys to boost the offense over the past couple years while maybe taking away from the defense to do so, but yet still the same result.
We are playing in a league that has been changing over the past few years and is designed to have offensive success.
The rules are even geared to try and promote that.

Yet with all these changes, we still seem to stay stagnant, running the same type of offensive phylosiphy with different guys.
Some of them new blood from the draft, some of them savvy veterans who have had a large degree of success elsewhere under different offensive phylosiphys.

Our defense is going to get weaker as guys begin to retire. (we all know the names)
The front office IMO has tried to swing some of the talent balance to the offense to try and compensate for the weakening defense, and the rules of the game now.

IMO, the phylosiphy of how we play offense is the biggest problem with our team.
Period, full stop.
Until that changes, our end results will noit change.

Two things through all of this have been the constant...

Harbaugh and Cameron.

We've already ruled out that firing a head coach that reaches the playoffs three straight years probably shouldn't happen, and most likely won't.


This all comes down to Cam Cameron.

We be looking alot like Marty ball which got his teams the same place ours continues to be.

I think it's already been documented that QBs who started under Cameron only seemed to reach the next level of success onvce he was gone.
Success doesn't necessarily mean Superbowl wins, but clearly these guys now play for teams that have very strong offenses that can put points on the board in a hurry if need be.
They seem to have production and balance in both phases of offensive football.

There are definitely still questions regarding Flacco, but so far, he's done very well, but just can't seem to get over the hump.

Quite frankly, I don't think we'll ever get to see if he can get over the hump until new blood is injected into him.

Somebody has to take the fall for the continued failure we have seen even with the changes that have already been made to try and fix it.


Bottom line...

Cam Cameron has to go!!

It is the only way to find out whether or not it is his way of running the offense and developing players is the answer to our continued failure at virtually the same poiint every year.

[Captain Offense]

I have not been on the "Fire-the-Coordinators" Committee this year, for a lot of reasons. Regardless, it is my observation that Cameron is a "professor" who has his plan and figures it works because it does so in the lab. Use of personnel, adjustments to defenses, adjustment to conditions and injuries - these are not part of the book. Call a play regardless of the personnel or how they are that day simply because it is THE play. I am not sure that the human element, the REAL WORLD factor, play into his view. Maybe he has taken Joe and the team as far as he can and it is time to get somebody for the next level.

I qualify all of this with the fact that I am not privy to what exists inside the team. I just cannot get my hands on why the Ravens hit the glass ceiling that separates the first level teams from the just-above-average ones. Maybe Cameron is the poster child for why we beat up on the ones below and fall just short of those above.

[Big Bird]

FANATIC - Well said. I am in total agreement with the possible exception of getting rid of Harbaugh. Even so, it has become increasingly clear to me that the O coordinator is a major problem for the Ravens. The question is: "Does Harbaugh support the play calling by OC? If so, its just as much his fault!!!

I do agree that the OC has to go. The guy is either 1 of 2 things to me:

1. Predictable (Therefore stoppable)

2. Stupid Play caller (attempting to surprise the opposition D) - Run for instance on 2nd and 20 to "fool the D".

The Ravens O is very tough to watch. We have lost games this year in the 4th quarter because the D is worn out. If the O cannot keep the ball by advancing it for a reasonable period of time, the D is back on the field again - too soon! That to me, is a major factor contributing to the D's wear out late in the game.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

FIRE CAMERON... Now!!!

:hammer:

[Corey]

FANATIC - Well said. I am in total agreement with the possible exception of getting rid of Harbaugh. Even so, it has become increasingly clear to me that the O coordinator is a major problem for the Ravens. The question is: "Does Harbaugh support the play calling by OC? If so, its just as much his fault!!!

I do agree that the OC has to go. The guy is either 1 of 2 things to me:

1. Predictable (Therefore stoppable)

2. Stupid Play caller (attempting to surprise the opposition D) - Run for instance on 2nd and 20 to "fool the D".

The Ravens O is very tough to watch. We have lost games this year in the 4th quarter because the D is worn out. If the O cannot keep the ball by advancing it for a reasonable period of time, the D is back on the field again - too soon! That to me, is a major factor contributing to the D's wear out late in the game.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

FIRE CAMERON... Now!!!

:hammer:

I think that was a case of Cam about to go into his Martyball phase. Play ball control and dont risk the turnover. Problem is he changed his mind on the next play and they turned it over anyway.

[Purpleguy]

Cam definitely needs to go, but so far the only reason anyone can give for keeping Harbaugh around is the fact that we've been to the playoffs 3 years in a row. For the life of me I have no clue what Harbaugh has had to do with that fact. Flacco has been our QB for the past 3 years as well, so maybe he has more to do with the consecutive playoff appearances.

The fact is that a HC provides the team with an identity. The Ravens have no true identity under Harbaugh. Our identity is inconsistensy and playing to the level of our opponents. Under Billick our identity was smash mouth defense and a pounding running game that wore other teams out. Billick got the best out of what he had on a consistent basis. I don't think anyone can argue that unless they just had a blind hatred for Billick. Has Harbaugh gotten the best out of what he has gotten? It doesn't appear so. Boldin and Housh were brought in and had the worst seasons of their careers. They were completely under utilized or misutilized. Stallworth was a waste of a roster spot. Rice is more of a scat back that needs to get out in space, but we continued to run him at the teeth of a defense. Flacco has progressed slowly, but seems like he is being held back. On defense it took Harbaugh over half the season to realize that Wilson was our best corner. Draft picks like Cody and Kruger look brilliant at times, but then get taken out of games. Ellerbe sat in the doghouse for half the season even though he was our best option. Maybe these problems are on the coordinators, but the HC needs to be smart enough to recognize the issues and make his coordinators fix them. It doesn't seem like Harbaugh is much of a game planner.

[Mwjergs]

Woodlawn has some strong points here.

The Gaither situation was huge this season. I think that both sides have blame in this but what about the future? He's said he wants to come back. Moving Oher was a bad move. But with Gaither back at LT - Grubbs and Yanda at Guard and Oher back at RT now all you need is a center. Birk may be done.

No question the Ravens need a big boost in the SPEED department on offense.

The Offense continues to be the Achilles heel of this team. Ever since the Ravens became a playoff team the offense has been shaky at best. I agree that we need a new set of eyes on the project.