What had me screaming

**NCRAVEN** · 12-15-2010, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

No chance. He's the QB. If the offense only gets 60 yards in an entire half of football against the league's worst pass defense, it falls on him. Period.

This is now the 4th straight game he's come out of half time and shat the bed. It almost cost us in Carolina. It happened again at home vs. Tampa Bay. Clearly it happened again against Pittsburgh. And it happened again in Houston. Only one of those teams has even a decent defense and that team, the Steelers, has a terrible secondary.

When will he play a complete game? As PP said, he kept the defense on the field the entire third quarter with his inability to convert first downs.

Dude, your hatred towards Flacco skews your thought process. I tend to like reading your post sometimes, but you're getting a we bit ridiculous.

DO you love Cam Cameron? The fact the plays take forever to come in from the sideline doesn't give Joe enough time to adjust things at the LOS even if they give him the power to do so (which I don't know either way). Not his fault.

The fact that the plays that are called put him under center where he is less effective and give him less to to scan the field and make good throws of the 11 pass attempts... again, not his fault.

Joe was not the problem with the second half. Not getting a chance to be on the field and when finally getting there shitty play calling contributed to the poor offensive performance

**RavensNTerps** · 12-15-2010, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Dude, your hatred towards Flacco skews your thought process. I tend to like reading your post sometimes, but you're getting a we bit ridiculous.

DO you love Cam Cameron? The fact the plays take forever to come in from the sideline doesn't give Joe enough time to adjust things at the LOS even if they give him the power to do so (which I don't know either way). Not his fault.

The fact that the plays that are called put him under center where he is less effective and give him less to to scan the field and make good throws of the 11 pass attempts... again, not his fault.

Joe was not the problem with the second half. Not getting a chance to be on the field and when finally getting there shitty play calling contributed to the poor offensive performance

No, I don't love Cameron. But it's completely incorrect for him to take all of the blame for the offense.

And i'm not any more ridiculous than the people calling for Cameron, Mattison, or Harbaugh's heads, which is half my point.

The other is to point out that it's just crazy how Flacco has dodged this blame schrpnel that our fans seem to be thorwing everywhere, yet he's as big a culptrit for the second half collapses as anyone. We absolutely did not go conservative on offense in the second half. Flacco just didn't make the plays. We didn't move the ball. We couldn't run OR pass.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-15-2010, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

No, I don't love Cameron. But it's completely incorrect for him to take all of the blame for the offense.

And i'm not any more ridiculous than the people calling for Cameron, Mattison, or Harbaugh's heads, which is half my point.

The other is to point out that it's just crazy how Flacco has dodged this blame schrpnel that our fans seem to be thorwing everywhere, yet he's as big a culptrit for the second half collapses as anyone. We absolutely did not go conservative on offense in the second half. Flacco just didn't make the plays. We didn't move the ball. We couldn't run OR pass.

It just seems to me that you are putting all the blame on him. Does he have some areas he needs to improve on? YES! But take the Steelers game for example, that final drive, no huddle, shotgun formation, we moved the ball (till that final throw). To me when you get the lead and take a QB who IS CLEARLY better in the shotgun and put him under center that is not his fault.

A coach should call the game around the capabilities of his players not calling the game and hope his players can find the skills necessary.

Joe could have done better, but I think a lot of the blame goes to play calling

**RavensNTerps** · 12-15-2010, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

It just seems to me that you are putting all the blame on him. Does he have some areas he needs to improve on? YES! But take the Steelers game for example, that final drive, no huddle, shotgun formation, we moved the ball (till that final throw). To me when you get the lead and take a QB who IS CLEARLY better in the shotgun and put him under center that is not his fault.

A coach should call the game around the capabilities of his players not calling the game and hope his players can find the skills necessary.

Joe could have done better, but I think a lot of the blame goes to play calling

If Joe's going to ever be a top QB in the NFL he needs to learn to play from under center. I don't see how that point helps your argument.

The playcalling wasn't terrible. The execution was atrocious, specifically up front. But Flacco needs to learn to make pre snap reads, hit hot routes, and how to avoid pressure. He likes to run backwards instead of letting hte rushers rush up field and making them pay. A couple of pressures and sacks fall directly on him.

He avoids this criticisim because it doesn't show up in stats, and the stats say he had a good game. The ole eye test, however, proves that he didn't. I just don't get how you can hang Cameron out to dry after this performance but not at least acknowledge Flacco's massive hand in it.

I'm not a Flacco hater - not by any stretch. I hate irrational fans who wnat to throw everyone under the bus when the truth of the matter is sometimes a close game comes down to a lack of execution on a few key plays. If Flacco converts that 3rd down on the pass he sailed high to Mason, we're talking a different game entirely perhaps, for example.

**ravensnhokies** · 12-15-2010, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Dude, your hatred towards Flacco skews your thought process. I tend to like reading your post sometimes, but you're getting a we bit ridiculous.

DO you love Cam Cameron? The fact the plays take forever to come in from the sideline doesn't give Joe enough time to adjust things at the LOS even if they give him the power to do so (which I don't know either way). Not his fault.

The fact that the plays that are called put him under center where he is less effective and give him less to to scan the field and make good throws of the 11 pass attempts... again, not his fault.

Joe was not the problem with the second half. Not getting a chance to be on the field and when finally getting there shitty play calling contributed to the poor offensive performance

If you go to the game, his delay in getting the play in is so evident. Seriously, I think that Cam's strategy is to get the play in late so Joe has to run the play called, instead of scanning the formation and allowing Joe to decide what would work. Its like he wants Joe to be a robot. To me, this is so assbackwards. Sure Joe would probably make a lot more mistakes with his reads due to his lack of game experience, but jeez, you gotta let him fail in order to learn from his mistakes. That's how QB's develop. I really feel bad for Joe b/c Cam has made not making turnovers way too important in Joe's growth. Everybody bitches about why Joe doesn't go over the middle.. Well don't you think, he's been trained that way with Cam. Throwing over the middle equals more potential INTs, so of course Joe's going to have a reluctance to fit the pass into that smaller window. All the evidence is there.. Once free of Cam's dictatorship, Brees and Rivers blossomed.

What can you do...

**NCRAVEN** · 12-15-2010, 11:59 AM

[QUOTE=RavensNTerps;242090]If Joe's going to ever be a top QB in the NFL he needs to learn to play from under center. I don't see how that point helps your argument.[QUOTE]

Seriously? If he can't do something and his coach is aware of it and still tells him to do it? Whose fault is that???????????????

**Corey** · 12-15-2010, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

If you go to the game, his delay in getting the play in is so evident. Seriously, I think that Cam's strategy is to get the play in late so Joe has to run the play called, instead of scanning the formation and allowing Joe to decide what would work. Its like he wants Joe to be a robot. To me, this is so assbackwards. Sure Joe would probably make a lot more mistakes with his reads due to his lack of game experience, but jeez, you gotta let him fail in order to learn from his mistakes. That's how QB's develop. I really feel bad for Joe b/c Cam has made not making turnovers way too important in Joe's growth. Everybody bitches about why Joe doesn't go over the middle.. Well don't you think, he's been trained that way with Cam. Throwing over the middle equals more potential INTs, so of course Joe's going to have a reluctance to fit the pass into that smaller window. All the evidence is there.. Once free of Cam's dictatorship, Brees and Rivers blossomed.

What can you do...

I am not on the fire Cam bandwagon but I have to agree. The Ravens have seen the same safety blitz 3 weeks in a row now. Your not going to tell me that the opposing team is just that good at disguising it.

They need to take the training wheels off of Flacco. It can only help at this point. The opposing defenses know Cameron's tendencies, they know what to expect from his brain. They dont know how Flacco thinks. Its time to let him call some of the plays. In certain situations.

**Carey** · 12-15-2010, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

If you go to the game, his delay in getting the play in is so evident. Seriously, I think that Cam's strategy is to get the play in late so Joe has to run the play called, instead of scanning the formation and allowing Joe to decide what would work. Its like he wants Joe to be a robot. To me, this is so assbackwards. Sure Joe would probably make a lot more mistakes with his reads due to his lack of game experience, but jeez, you gotta let him fail in order to learn from his mistakes. That's how QB's develop. I really feel bad for Joe b/c Cam has made not making turnovers way too important in Joe's growth. Everybody bitches about why Joe doesn't go over the middle.. Well don't you think, he's been trained that way with Cam. Throwing over the middle equals more potential INTs, so of course Joe's going to have a reluctance to fit the pass into that smaller window. All the evidence is there.. Once free of Cam's dictatorship, Brees and Rivers blossomed.

What can you do...

I agree, word for word!!! I also agree with Corey, im not calling for Cam's head, he needs to take the training wheels of Joe, they'll be growing pains, more turnovers but also more points and he'll be a better QB for it.

**RavensNTerps** · 12-15-2010, 12:45 PM

[QUOTE=NCRAVEN;242094][QUOTE=RavensNTerps;242090]If Joe's going to ever be a top QB in the NFL he needs to learn to play from under center. I don't see how that point helps your argument.

Seriously? If he can't do something and his coach is aware of it and still tells him to do it? Whose fault is that???????????????

If he can't play from under center, then he's not an NFL quarterback. This isn't D-II football. You can't play in shot gun spread formations the whole game every game. You have to play from under center.

We're still in shot gun a lot.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-15-2010, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

We're still in shot gun a lot.

And who determines the play calling?

**RavensNTerps** · 12-15-2010, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

And who determines the play calling?

I'm sorry, when you get 71 yards of offense in a half of football agianst a terrible defense it falls on the quarterback. It's true for Flacco, it's true for Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Rusty Smith.

There's just no excuse for it

I can't believe you're even defending this. I know its fashionable to blame Cam, but why does Joe avoid the blame? This is now the 4th straight game.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-15-2010, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=RavensNTerps;242111][QUOTE=NCRAVEN;242094]

Originally Posted by RavensNTerps

If Joe's going to ever be a top QB in the NFL he needs to learn to play from under center. I don't see how that point helps your argument.

If he can't play from under center, then he's not an NFL quarterback. This isn't D-II football. You can't play in shot gun spread formations the whole game every game. You have to play from under center.

We're still in shot gun a lot.

He may not be an NFL QB if he can't play from under center. BUT, that is not the point of the argument.

The point is who does the blame fall on if the offense plays like crap. And if he can't play well from under center but you continually put him there. That would be who's fault?