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  1. #31

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee



    This is so simple. We traded a first round choice FOR a first round choice, period. What we "gave up" was ONE draft choice-in the second round. Comprende?
    BS its not as simple as that. and I think when this arguement comes up you guys are missing the point or You guys just want to justify the picking of Boller. I wont say its not a good selling point and Ozzie used it well but the Fact is we wasted a pick on Boller in the first round in 2003, gave up our 2nd rounder, then gave our only 2004 1st round pick to the PATs. Boller was taken in the 1st round round, NOT THE SECOND. We wasted a 1st and a 2nd on that POS, Comprende?

    If you think it was so simple, would you do it again? That move set the team back a couple of years.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  2. #32

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyraven View Post
    BS its not as simple as that. and I think when this arguement comes up you guys are missing the point or You guys just want to justify the picking of Boller. I wont say its not a good selling point and Ozzie used it well but the Fact is we wasted a pick on Boller in the first round in 2003, gave up our 2nd rounder, then gave our only 2004 1st round pick to the PATs. Boller was taken in the 1st round round, NOT THE SECOND. We wasted a 1st and a 2nd on that POS, Comprende?

    If you think it was so simple, would you do it again? That move set the team back a couple of years.
    Holy crap.

    Are you serious.

    I want to justify picking Boller? I wish we hadn't of drafted him.

    Of course we "used" a pick to draft Boller. That's not the point.

    It's really quite simple. The Ravens "lost" one draft pick in the Boller deal.

    You can say we wasted the pick with Boller, which I won't argue with. But the fact is, we HAD the pick to waste.

    Follow closely. Each team has one pick per round in every draft.

    The Ravens traded their 2003 2nd rounder and 2004 1st rounder to the Pats for their 2003 1st rounder.

    Hence, the net "loss" was the 2003 2nd rounder.

    Can you not understand that?

    Argue that the pick was bad. Hell, I agree.

    But to simply refuse to acknowledge facts is ridiculous.

    PP




  3. #33

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyraven View Post
    BS its not as simple as that. and I think when this arguement comes up you guys are missing the point or You guys just want to justify the picking of Boller. I wont say its not a good selling point and Ozzie used it well but the Fact is we wasted a pick on Boller in the first round in 2003, gave up our 2nd rounder, then gave our only 2004 1st round pick to the PATs. Boller was taken in the 1st round round, NOT THE SECOND. We wasted a 1st and a 2nd on that POS, Comprende?

    If you think it was so simple, would you do it again? That move set the team back a couple of years.
    Crazy, you are talking about apples (should we have drafted Boller at 19?) while eveyone is talking about oranges (in order to get the pick at 19, which picks did we give up?).

    You could start a separate thread, "Should we have drafted Boller at 19" in the QB subforum.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  4. #34

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Everyone involved, both sides calm down and listen up. IT IS VERY SIMPLE, you are BOTH right. It is a matter of semantics and you are talking about seperate things.

    The total COST of Boller is a first and a second pick.

    The cost of ACQUIRING Boller is a singular second round pick.

    Boller was picked with a first rd pick. It was one acquired in 2003. The player was drafted with a single 1st rd pick. We traded a first rd pick in the following year and a second in that year to move up. 2 picks turn into one, a net loss of one pick in the TRADE. You can think of it either as moving up from the second to the first, trading a future first to do so. You could also see it as trading your next first rd pick, for one this year, and to do so, the other team requires your second round pick THIS year. Either way, same thing, one lost pick.

    So you lose one when you trade for the pick, and then you USE that pick on him. We picked Boller at the expense of 2 other players. Had we not drafted Boller we would have 2 other players. This the total cost of Boller is two players, or more simply, 2 picks.

    You are both right, just talking about sematically different things. Exact wording is key.




  5. #35

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Of course we "used" a pick to draft Boller. That's not the point.
    It is the point and here is why.

    The total COST of Boller is a first and a second pick.

    The cost of ACQUIRING Boller is a singular second round pick.
    Exactly Right and throw in the fact that we had to sit out in the first round of the 2004 draft, the total cost for Boller has been a crippling experience. So keeping with the threads theme of "over paying" those peddling oranges seem to be, well, wrong.

    Apologies will be accepted through PM or reputation points....thank you very much John for paying attention.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  6. #36

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyraven View Post
    It is the point and here is why.
    No. It's *your* point. Eveyone understands it's *your* point, and nobody is even arguing with you, it's just, some people are trying to talk about one thing, and you are stubbornly talking about another.

    Go ahead, make this thread about you.

    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Behind enemies lines Shitsburgh
    Posts
    858

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    I love ozzie and trust him fully. He always find a gem somehow. Another good draft this year. and willis will be a upgrade with our now younger line. I just hope it dont take long for everyone to gel. O lineman in the first and maybe luke gertsy something the qb from arkon in the late rounds. I think he is a very smart kid. Could be a gem, who knows.




  8. #38

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyraven View Post
    It is the point and here is why.


    Exactly Right and throw in the fact that we had to sit out in the first round of the 2004 draft, the total cost for Boller has been a crippling experience. So keeping with the threads theme of "over paying" those peddling oranges seem to be, well, wrong.

    Apologies will be accepted through PM or reputation points....thank you very much John for paying attention.
    Did Todd Heap "cost" us a 1st round pick?

    No.

    Did Ray Lewis "cost" us a 1st round pick?

    NO.

    Jesush H. Christ.

    The cost is what you pay.

    We paid the Patriots a 2nd round pick. That's it. Period.

    I swear, this is bordering on the ridiculous.

    You are talkin about the results of the Boller pick as "cost".

    Sure, the Boller pick was crappy (IMO) but doesn't change the facts of what we gave up to get the pick.

    Im sure your PM box is gonna fill up quickly.



    PP




  9. #39

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Did Todd Heap "cost" us a 1st round pick?

    No.

    Did Ray Lewis "cost" us a 1st round pick?

    NO.

    Jesush H. Christ.
    WOW. Simply wow. What did we use dingle berries as payment to get these guys. No the NFL issues drafts picks, so that NFL teams can pick a player of value. Come to think of it dont they have a "value system". Ray lewis cost a 1st round pick. Todd Heap cost a 1st round pick. AND yes Boller cost a first round pick. To say they didnt is like trying to convince me the sky is red.

    Lets look at this in the simpliest terms. A draft pick is worth something. Depending on the round its worth more, the 1st round being the highest, you know like a 100 dollar bill is worth more than say a 50 dollar bill or a fiver.

    You can call me a douche bag, ridicoulous, trying to make this about me, etc etc but the fact is still the same and no matter how you try to spin it BOLLER COST US A 1st and 2nd.

    I'll ask the question again that seemed to have been glossed over, would you do a trade like that again where you sit out the following season? Funny how that was avoided.

    Sure, the Boller pick was crappy (IMO) but doesn't change the facts of what we gave up to get the pick.
    We both agree that he was a crappy pick. For a moment lets forget about that and Take that out. Forget who he is or who he represents. A first round pick was used to get him therefore a cost was incurred. Again forget the fact that we had a lemon on our hands, something of value was used (draft picks) to get something of value (boller). We also had sit out in 2004 1st round and give a 2nd rounder at the Pats. That means we paid for him with two draft picks. Which is what this thread is about. Two draft picks were used to get him, not one as some of you guys want to make it out.

    Now considering the results of the players. You brought up Todd heap, we just used one pick for him. Did We overpaid for him compared to Boller? I'd ask you about Ray but that would be totally unfair.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  10. #40

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Ok, if noone else will, I'll post on the subject at hand.... namely Mcgahee. If you use the "point system", we paid a whole lot less than was paid for Jones from chicago... I think tht Mcgahee will pan out to be a better trade. Therefore, Mcgahee seems like a good, solid trade!




  11. #41

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Ok, if noone else will, I'll post on the subject at hand.... namely Mcgahee. If you use the "point system", we paid a whole lot less than was paid for Jones from chicago... I think that Mcgahee will pan out to be a better trade. Therefore, Mcgahee seems like a good, solid trade!




  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    So Cali
    Posts
    774

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by duffybr View Post
    Our roster has very little room for new players.
    Several of our picks our going to wind up on the practice squad or playing for cleveland.
    I thought Cleveland was our practice squad..?
    Keeping the purple flowing way out on the West Coast!




  13. #43

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyraven View Post
    WOW. Simply wow. What did we use dingle berries as payment to get these guys. No the NFL issues drafts picks, so that NFL teams can pick a player of value. Come to think of it dont they have a "value system". Ray lewis cost a 1st round pick. Todd Heap cost a 1st round pick. AND yes Boller cost a first round pick. To say they didnt is like trying to convince me the sky is red.

    Lets look at this in the simpliest terms. A draft pick is worth something. Depending on the round its worth more, the 1st round being the highest, you know like a 100 dollar bill is worth more than say a 50 dollar bill or a fiver.

    You can call me a douche bag, ridicoulous, trying to make this about me, etc etc but the fact is still the same and no matter how you try to spin it BOLLER COST US A 1st and 2nd.

    I'll ask the question again that seemed to have been glossed over, would you do a trade like that again where you sit out the following season? Funny how that was avoided.



    We both agree that he was a crappy pick. For a moment lets forget about that and Take that out. Forget who he is or who he represents. A first round pick was used to get him therefore a cost was incurred. Again forget the fact that we had a lemon on our hands, something of value was used (draft picks) to get something of value (boller). We also had sit out in 2004 1st round and give a 2nd rounder at the Pats. That means we paid for him with two draft picks. Which is what this thread is about. Two draft picks were used to get him, not one as some of you guys want to make it out.

    Now considering the results of the players. You brought up Todd heap, we just used one pick for him. Did We overpaid for him compared to Boller? I'd ask you about Ray but that would be totally unfair.

    LOL.

    OK dude. If something is given to you (i.e. a pick in each round) you don't pay for it.

    The Ravens decided they wanted Boller. So they paid the Patriots a 2nd round pick and swapped 1st rounders. The net loss, in picks, was ONE. In fact, since the Ravens made the playoffs in 2003, the pick they used for Boller was higher than the pick NE got from us in the 2004 draft.

    You can never "overpay" for a player picked with a pick that's been issued by the NFL because nothing was given up.

    We didn't "overpay" for Patrick Johnson. He was just a bust pick. But we didn't give anything up to get him. We simply used the pick issued to us by the NFL to take him.

    McGahee "cost" us 3 picks.

    Boller "cost" us 1 pick.

    Again, it's very simple.

    You may say that Heap "cost" us a 1st rounder. Or Ray. Or JO.

    You are the ONLY person I've ever heard say that.

    If Boller truly "cost" us a 1st and 2nd rounder, then NE would've had our 04 and 05 1st rounders along with the 03 second rounder. With us getting their 03 first rounder, the above scenario would be a loss of 2 draft picks.


    PP




  14. #44

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    OK dude. If something is given to you (i.e. a pick in each round) you don't pay for it.
    Given? you earn that pick by being the worst. The NFL in the sprit of parity give up high draft picks to the worst teams and low ones to the best team. How you spend your draft pick is up to the indivual teams. Saying you dont pay for a pick and that it was given to a team is a slap in the face to the fans who had to endure a shitty season. The fans look forward to that pick in terms of hope. Centainly its worth a lot to the city and team.


    PP the people who put the web vote on the home page and inside this thread think the ravens gave up a 1st and 2nd. Look on the front page and look at the very first post. I'm not the only one.

    BTW You Still havent answered my question.....
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  15. #45

    Re: Ravens Overpaid For McGahee

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyraven View Post
    Given? you earn that pick by being the worst. The NFL in the sprit of parity give up high draft picks to the worst teams and low ones to the best team. How you spend your draft pick is up to the indivual teams. Saying you dont pay for a pick and that it was given to a team is a slap in the face to the fans who had to endure a shitty season. The fans look forward to that pick in terms of hope. Centainly its worth a lot to the city and team.


    PP the people who put the web vote on the home page and inside this thread think the ravens gave up a 1st and 2nd. Look on the front page and look at the very first post. I'm not the only one.

    BTW You Still havent answered my question.....
    Good lord.

    We traded a 1st and and 2nd for a 1st.

    The 1st rounder turned out to be Boller.

    The net loss in the trade was a 2nd round pick. That is FACT. I repeat, A FACT.

    You're BS about a slap in the face to the fans is so completely not relavent it's hilarious.

    As I stated before, the Ravens actually had a better pick at 19 than they would've in 2004 because we went 10-6 and made the playoffs in 2003.

    What question? About Heap.

    We took Heap with the last pick of the 1st round or something? Great pick. It has nothing to do with the topic of the Boller trade.

    Really, this is pointless now.

    Anyone who knows what they are talking about knows that Boller cost us a 2nd round pick. It's what the team LOST in order to aquire him.

    You're tangents about him being a bad pick are just that. Tangents.

    If we truly traded a 1st and a second for Boller, than we would have lost 2 draft picks. But we didn't, we lost one. And that was the 2nd rounder in 2003.

    I could really care less what the person posted in a web poll. It's stated incorrectly.

    If I went on what everyone else on these boards think, we'd of traded Ray, cut Cmac, let Boller play instead of getting McNair, and fired Billick.

    PP
    Last edited by purplepoe; 04-02-2007 at 10:54 PM.




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