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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    So Cali
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    774

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??



    I second…


    Err…

    I mean third that. Nicely done Festivus.




  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Eastern Shore, MD
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    330

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Looks like someone from the scout forum found a link to the forbidden city....


    Seinfeld fans??
    "This year, our attitude when we’re on the field is we’re attacking, we want to put points on the board and then let our defense pin their ears back and have at it."
    -Mark Clayton




  3. #18

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Ravcol responds: Glad everyone agrees...but..

    Because they lack depth at RB, and can use Jamal's diminished skills.

    By all means lets sign a guy with 'diminished skills'. Not many of them around..

    And Ray Lewis calls out the plays for the defense, and is one of the greatest in the history of the game to play his position. And is the face of the franchise, and could not have done more as a 'team player' during this past season.

    The Ravens defense improved immeasureably when Bart Scott took over
    for an injured Ray Lewis in 2005. He is much cheaper and a quality guy. $3M in savings.

    Possibly the second best cornerback in the NFL. (CMAC)

    He's certainly the best when it comes to getting penalized. Is he worth that $8M cap figure? And what does that have to do with him being an idiot?

    They're not cutting (AD) loose. It's called free agency.

    They seemed to be able to re-sign Ogden, Lewis, Heap, Reed and McAlister. Now they won't sign a guy who is better than all of them and plays five positions to boot. (talk about cap savings)

    [I]How much do we save on Mulitalo and Flynn by cutting them? Do they not add depth? Are you sure they will be here?[/I]

    Savings is about $4M..as for depth, Billick did a great job with his depth at RB. A premier 1000 yard rusher had 37 total carries when your number one sucked all year.




  4. #19

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    Because they lack depth at RB, and can use Jamal's diminished skills.

    By all means lets sign a guy with 'diminished skills'. Not many of them around..
    Ok. . . Who do you want to upgrade with, how much will you spend? I don't need Jamal back, but I have no problem resigning him at a salary commensurate with his skills. Do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    And Ray Lewis calls out the plays for the defense, and is one of the greatest in the history of the game to play his position. And is the face of the franchise, and could not have done more as a 'team player' during this past season.

    The Ravens defense improved immeasureably when Bart Scott took over
    for an injured Ray Lewis in 2005. He is much cheaper and a quality guy. $3M in savings.
    "Immeasurably"? Is that a number? Because statistically I am 100% certain our defense was markedly superior this year when Ray Lewis was in, compared to when he was out. Hopefully someone here who knows how to track that information down can come up with the magic number, but it's just a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    Possibly the second best cornerback in the NFL. (CMAC)

    He's certainly the best when it comes to getting penalized. Is he worth that $8M cap figure? And what does that have to do with him being an idiot?
    Nothing. He was not heavily penalized and had a career year this year, along with (finally) having a year staying out of the headlines.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    They're not cutting (AD) loose. It's called free agency.

    They seemed to be able to re-sign Ogden, Lewis, Heap, Reed and McAlister. Now they won't sign a guy who is better than all of them and plays five positions to boot. (talk about cap savings)
    You are saying AD is better then Ed Reed, and better then Ray Lewis, and better then Chris McAlister, and better then Jonathan Ogden. In order of likelihood of making the HOF, I would say, (1) Lewis, (2) Ogden - both locks - (3) Reed, (4) McAlister - ranked closely - and AD does not make the list. No disrespect, he's good, but you have got to be kidding me. All four of those guys you mentioned are playing very well, and only one - Lewis - even *arguably* was not playing at the peak of his skills this past year.

    Now I am beginning to understand that it is not Chris McAlister who is acting like an idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    [I]How much do we save on Mulitalo and Flynn by cutting them? Do they not add depth? Are you sure they will be here?[/I]

    Savings is about $4M..
    Great. Then we need two more interior linemen. Perhaps they will be free?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    as for depth, Billick did a great job with his depth at RB. A premier 1000 yard rusher had 37 total carries when your number one sucked all year.
    Actually Fassel mixed it up pretty well, using a 3 RB system. It wasn't until Billick went to a *one* RB system, featuring a RB who "sucked all year," that our offense finally got better.

    I feel like I am having an argument with someone who is stuck in the '06 off season. :brickwall:
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #20

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    Ravcol responds: Glad everyone agrees...but..

    Because they lack depth at RB, and can use Jamal's diminished skills.

    By all means lets sign a guy with 'diminished skills'. Not many of them around..

    And Ray Lewis calls out the plays for the defense, and is one of the greatest in the history of the game to play his position. And is the face of the franchise, and could not have done more as a 'team player' during this past season.

    The Ravens defense improved immeasureably when Bart Scott took over
    for an injured Ray Lewis in 2005. He is much cheaper and a quality guy. $3M in savings.

    Possibly the second best cornerback in the NFL. (CMAC)

    He's certainly the best when it comes to getting penalized. Is he worth that $8M cap figure? And what does that have to do with him being an idiot?

    They're not cutting (AD) loose. It's called free agency.

    They seemed to be able to re-sign Ogden, Lewis, Heap, Reed and McAlister. Now they won't sign a guy who is better than all of them and plays five positions to boot. (talk about cap savings)

    [I]How much do we save on Mulitalo and Flynn by cutting them? Do they not add depth? Are you sure they will be here?[/I]

    Savings is about $4M..as for depth, Billick did a great job with his depth at RB. A premier 1000 yard rusher had 37 total carries when your number one sucked all year.
    May I be the first to say... This is not fantasy football. We can't just sign who we want for what we want.
    There are 4 ufa running backs available this year, Jamal ranking # 1 on that list. Let's cut Cmac, and sign Who?
    Ogden, Lewis, Heap, Reed, and CMac were re-signed when they were much younger, with more serviceable years left!
    Defense ranked 5th or 6th in 2005, 1st in 2006... how does that make the defense better w/ Scott than Ray-Ray.
    C'mon man, say something that makes sense, because none of this did!!!!
    Last edited by Rochardrik; 02-26-2007 at 02:51 PM.




  6. #21

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    He was not heavily penalized and had a career year this year, along with (finally) having a year staying out of the headlines.

    One game he actually drew a flag from all 3 food groups--pass interference, illegal use of hands, and holding. He did cut down on the personal foul calls though, and averaged only one simultaneous chinstrap unbuckling per game..

    You are saying AD is better then Ed Reed, and better then Ray Lewis, and better then Chris McAlister, and better then Jonathan Ogden. In order of likelihood of making the HOF, I would say, (1) Lewis, (2) Ogden - both locks - (3) Reed, (4) McAlister - ranked closely - and AD does not make the list. No disrespect, he's good, but you have got to be kidding me. All four of those guys you mentioned are playing very well, and only one - Lewis - even *arguably* was not playing at the peak of his skills this past year.

    AD has been the best player on this team the past three years, with Ogden a close second. AD is better than Reed, Lewis and CMAC. He made All-Pro and plays five positions. Not talking who belongs in the HOF, I care about this year and the next five. Reed is one dimensional and uncoachable, Lewis is on his last legs and JO is as well. CMAC is, well, on a different planet.

    Now I am beginning to understand that it is not Chris McAlister who is acting like an idiot.[/I][/B]

    Waddaya mean acting...nobody's perfect...




  7. #22

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Quote Originally Posted by ravcol View Post
    AD has been the best player on this team the past three years, with Ogden a close second. AD is better than Reed, Lewis and CMAC. He made All-Pro and plays five positions. Not talking who belongs in the HOF, I care about this year and the next five.
    Setting aside your completely inaccurate evaluation of these players relative to each other. . .

    Don't misunderstand me. AD is very good as a LB/DE. That's what he plays, though he occasionally lined up elsewhere.

    AD is *so* good, he deserves to get paid. He has done great for us in the years he's been here, so good he has blossomed into a player who deserves a big payday. Because of the timing, and because he plays a position at which we are relatively deep, he is going to cash in elsewhere, to get what he deserves.

    It is not a poor reflection on the Ravens, on the contrary, I am pleased to see the Ravens could (a) find and (b) develop a 'diamond in the rough' like that.

    Where you see a failure by the front office, I see another signal of their success at finding, signing, and developing talent.

    How much do you want to sacrifice to keep one man?
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    So Cali
    Posts
    774

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    I would respond but Festivus is doing so well at saying what I would… but better – all by himself.

    I’ll just watch in the wings. Get is… Ravens… wings… OK I’ll stop now.




  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    festivus, you're doing a great job schooling this guy but on CMac I have to disagree:

    The 10 most penalised NFL players in yardage

    McAlister, Chris Bal 122
    Hobbs, Ellis NE 117
    Rolle, Antrel Arz 107
    Allen, Will D. Mia 101
    Taylor, Sean Was 99
    Incognito, Richie StL 95
    Whitfield, Bob NYG 90
    Trueblood, Jeremy TB 85
    Wells, Reggie Arz 85
    Tillman, Charles Chi 83

    Those are the stats, as per usual CMac was heavily penalised this year and was not close to the 2nd best corner in the league this year I'd take the following above CMac without much question:

    Bailey, Asomogha, Clements, Newman, Dunta Robinson, Asante Samuel.

    That's not to say CMac isn't an upper tier corner in this league but he's not close to his very best in my opinion. He appears to have lost his top end speed that these guys all still have. At his best he was as good as Bailey and his run support is as good as there is in the NFL, but his top end speed and his closing speed removed him from the elite tier this season and the season before for my money.

    NOTE: PacMan Jones would be in that group as well if he wasn't a complete idiot.




  10. #25

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Your list could be skewed, if Mcalister got a 65 or 70 yard PI penalty then that could account for most of it.

    I think for you to say he isn't one of the elite is blasphemy




  11. #26

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    UK, normally your word is gold but I stand by my comment. Perhaps it's debatable but I saw a lot of those guys play this year and I'd take CMac over pretty much anyone but Champ Bailey.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  12. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    UK, normally your word is gold but I stand by my comment. Perhaps it's debatable but I saw a lot of those guys play this year and I'd take CMac over pretty much anyone but Champ Bailey.
    That's fair enough and I can see the point of view but I just think that once you're up to a certain age your closing speed and deep speed goes and with the modern NFL I think the ability to run with anyone is vital and I think those guys edge it over CMac, they aren't gonna support the run or get in the WRs head like CMac might, but they can run with guys better than CMac IMO and with the bias to the WR at the moment I think that's more important right now.

    Of those I listed, Bailey and Asomogha I'd definately, absolutely take over CMac this year. The others would be a toss up with me leaning towards all bar Clements, over CMac due to superior speed. With hindsight Clements wasn't that great this year, but he will apparently be the subject of a bidding war between the Redskins and the Giants this off-season.




  13. #28

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    I didn't mean to be short before, I was rushing.
    1. CMac plays physical in his support of the run.
    2. CMac, more then ever in his career, appears always to be in the right place at the right time.
    3. Opposing qb's/oc's appear to avoid challenging him.
    4. CMac has stopped acting like an idiot, notwithstanding ravcol's assertion to the contrary.

    Really, I think 3 says it all. If I'm wrong about that, let me know. Champ Bailey ain't no spring chicken either, I don't think.

    Whatcha gonna do with your .sig, UK?
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  14. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    I didn't mean to be short before, I was rushing.
    1. CMac plays physical in his support of the run.
    2. CMac, more then ever in his career, appears always to be in the right place at the right time.
    3. Opposing qb's/oc's appear to avoid challenging him.
    4. CMac has stopped acting like an idiot, notwithstanding ravcol's assertion to the contrary.

    Really, I think 3 says it all. If I'm wrong about that, let me know. Champ Bailey ain't no spring chicken either, I don't think.

    Whatcha gonna do with your .sig, UK?
    1. Totally agree, with Baxter's knees arsed and possibly never playing again (very sad about this) he's the best run support corner in the league along with Bailey and Ronde Barber for my money.
    2. Most of the time, yes I agree but when he's not he's not got the ability to recover anymore IMO.
    3. Very true though it's slightly augmented by playing opposite Rolle this year.
    4. Totally agree, that stopped to my mind when Sanders signed for his second year I think. Turned up for the interview and has behaved like a teammate ever since.

    Signature - No idea, I didn't make the sig, someone over at YBR made it for me, might keep it unless I can find someone to make a new one for me, he may have played his last as a Raven but he's still a legend. If I get it changed I'd look for something with Matt Stover in it.




  15. #30

    Re: Restructuring...Jamal??

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    Signature - No idea, I didn't make the sig, someone over at YBR made it for me, might keep it unless I can find someone to make a new one for me, he may have played his last as a Raven but he's still a legend. If I get it changed I'd look for something with Matt Stover in it.
    Hell, keep it. I have Jermaine Lewis in my avatar. :toast:
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




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