Who Will the Ravens Take?

[jonboy79]

Did you watch the second half of the last season?? Foxworth is not a "shutdown corner", but there are only about 4 of those in the entire league. He is good enough as our best cover guy, and he will only get better.

We must have been watching a different player named "Webb" because I saw a stud and future starter when I saw him play. Our defense was third against the pass with Washington and Webb both missing a good bit of time. I don't get the desire to blow up the secondary again. We are in much better shape in the secondary right now than we were a year ago.

Sure, every game multiple times. Foxy looked much better while Reed was out, but word on the street is that Reed is coming back. We need better coverage back there so we don't continue to lead the league in long plays given up.

Cincy has a fine pair of corners. Neither are "shutdown" but both are superior to Foxworth. I'd be fine with a pair of that quality.

Nope, I also saw a LOT of value in Webb on ST, and if you make him a full time starter you lose all of that. I'd like to see him continue in the return game, and contribute as one of the better Nickels in football.


Spending a first round pick on a WR is one of the riskiest moves a football team can make. It has historically the lowest percentage of reliable players. CB is better, though not the least risky position. DE is another position that has much better risk/reward ratio in the first round.

[jonboy79]

I just don't know how much longer I can go with the Ravens only adding enough WR pieces to get by. I am willing to give up a little on defense, maybe slip to 5th or 8th (God forbid), but we are a better team if the offense is able to get up to that same range.

The NFL (or should I say, "National Football League" if I'm standing on my pedestal) is built for quarterbacks to throw the ball around. The teams winning championships these days have quarterbacks that can carry their teams. In order for Joe to be on that level, and thusly for us to compete for championships, we need to give him the weapons necessary to put the game on his back.

For me, a defense ranked 8th with an offense ranked 5th > a defense ranked 3rd and of offense ranked 14th. I want to see some damn offense in Baltimore!! And in all seriousness, that is the way to win these days. Cam was even quoted recently saying you have to be able to throw the ball to win. Get Joe some weapons, Oz.

WR is by far the most overrated position in all of football, not by a little, by a lot.
Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie are no better then DWil and Mark Clayton, if so by a very small margin. The difference is a mature Peyton Manning.

I completely and totally disagree on the O vs D. Our D wasn't good enough last year, the O wasn't either, but D is simply more important. It will continue to be in the future. Unless you have Peyton Manning, an elite D is the key ingredient to postseason success.
I completely agree with your QB take, they continue to become more important with each year.

The secret to winning in the NFL is to surround the best QB you can get with as much talent as you can. Defense and OL are your next keys.

[baltimore_hokie]

WR is by far the most overrated position in all of football, not by a little, by a lot.

The secret to winning in the NFL is to surround the best QB you can get with as much talent as you can.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with these two points?? I agree that WR is over-rated, but we have all the other pieces in place around him to make him very good. To put us, and Joe in the process, over the top would be to make the Ravens a GREAT offensive football team. To do this, we simply must add talent at WR.

I completely and totally disagree on the O vs D. Our D wasn't good enough last year, the O wasn't either, but D is simply more important. It will continue to be in the future. Unless you have Peyton Manning, an elite D is the key ingredient to postseason success.

Our D was ranked 3rd in the NFL with half the starting secondary out for a good bit of the year. This defense was very good. So what difference will it make if we move up to second in the league? Even first?

The difference is that we scored 3 points against Indy. That's why we lost. We held Peyton's offense to 37 points in 2 games, some teams didn't do that in one game.

We have a great, young OL. A star QB in the making. A star RB. A solid, veteran TE. A great complimentary #2 WR. The only thing we are missing on offense is game-breaking WR, and is it a coincidence that the only thing we can't do on offense is make big plays in the passing game against good defenses?

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I don't get this idea that we can only win if we have the #1 overall defense.

Our defense, after a slow start, was plenty good last year. Definately good enough to win in the playoffs if our offense didn't look like Billick's with Boller at the helm for the last 3 games of the year.

[jonboy79]

Aren't you contradicting yourself with these two points?? I agree that WR is over-rated, but we have all the other pieces in place around him to make him very good. To put us, and Joe in the process, over the top would be to make the Ravens a GREAT offensive football team. To do this, we simply must add talent at WR.


Our D was ranked 3rd in the NFL with half the starting secondary out for a good bit of the year. This defense was very good. So what difference will it make if we move up to second in the league? Even first?

The difference is that we scored 3 points against Indy. That's why we lost. We held Peyton's offense to 37 points in 2 games, some teams didn't do that in one game.

We have a great, young OL. A star QB in the making. A star RB. A solid, veteran TE. A great complimentary #2 WR. The only thing we are missing on offense is game-breaking WR, and is it a coincidence that the only thing we can't do on offense is make big plays in the passing game against good defenses?

Don't get me wrong, we can't go into next season with Clayton, DWil, Kelly Washington, Eron Riley and Marcus Smith.... But there is a big difference between that and all out panic at the position. I think we need to get two starting quality players in "FA" and draft another. The 4th and fifth guys can be from the in house mix. Two of Boldin, Mason, Malcolm Floyd and TO should be a reachable "goal". I think Boldin should be acquireable within the elite 8 rules, for a third and maybe a player like Tavares Gooden. If Mason wants to come back, great, or if he goes to Tennesee, we should have the opportunity to get a guy like TO on the cheap.

IN the draft, an early mid round guy like Danario Alexander or Eric Decker should fit the bill to add depth to an improved unit.

But there is a big difference between that and giving it all up for Brandon Marshall, or selecting a 2nd round talent in the first over many much higher rated Defensive players. Dez Bryant is the only first round WR and he will be long gone.
I am NOT willing to upgrade the WR position, IN SPITE of another. Moves must be made at the position to complement the others, not the other way around.

Our D really wasn't that great. They really need more passrush AND better coverage. We could stop the run all day long, but couldn't get off the field consistantly on third down. I don't care where we rank in the league next year, but it will make a HUGE difference if our pass D improves to the point where we can consistantly force punts. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more then a WR ever could affect the outcome of a game.

WR is a need, just like TE is a need and CB and DE are needs. After that, you are right, we don't have many needs.

[jonboy79]

I don't get this idea that we can only win if we have the #1 overall defense.

Our defense, after a slow start, was plenty good last year. Definately good enough to win in the playoffs if our offense didn't look like Billick's with Boller at the helm for the last 3 games of the year.

I don't care where they were ranked. People look back at the stats of this defense with a smile, but you should remember biting your nails everytime we had a lead and swearing at tthe TV over and over at the penalties and complete inability to get off the field on third downs. Fix that and I will be happy. I don't care where we rank.

[Jeremiah W]

The D needs to get better at pressuring the QB with a 4 man rush.

The LB coverage was a little shaky.

The CBs had way too many flags.

The run D was not effective in 3 games and inconsistant in others.

It did take a step back from the year before although there are good excuses, there is no reason to think the D as constructed would be good enough to beat Indy or the Saints in a shootout. They could do it, but they would have to play very well and get a little lucky unless they cam up with a better pass rush from the front 4. Trevor Pryce leading the team with 6.5 is not good enough. If it was Suggs or Nagta leading the team with 6.5 then it would be a little less alarming. I feel like the WR and the DL units are similar in that they have a lot of talent and depth but no dominant #1 guy when it comes to making the big play so consistantly that the protections or coverageas and play calls become predictable.

If you look around the NFL at the list of WRs we wish we had, almost all of them were drafted in the 1st 3 rounds. A lot of the pass rushers were also drafted, but more of the big time guys get traded or paid in free agency and pan out than the WRs who make it to the market.

[baltimore_hokie]

Don't get me wrong, we can't go into next season with Clayton, DWil, Kelly Washington, Eron Riley and Marcus Smith.... But there is a big difference between that and all out panic at the position. I think we need to get two starting quality players in "FA" and draft another. The 4th and fifth guys can be from the in house mix. Two of Boldin, Mason, Malcolm Floyd and TO should be a reachable "goal". I think Boldin should be acquireable within the elite 8 rules, for a third and maybe a player like Tavares Gooden. If Mason wants to come back, great, or if he goes to Tennesee, we should have the opportunity to get a guy like TO on the cheap.

IN the draft, an early mid round guy like Danario Alexander or Eric Decker should fit the bill to add depth to an improved unit.

But there is a big difference between that and giving it all up for Brandon Marshall, or selecting a 2nd round talent in the first over many much higher rated Defensive players. Dez Bryant is the only first round WR and he will be long gone.
I am NOT willing to upgrade the WR position, IN SPITE of another. Moves must be made at the position to complement the others, not the other way around.

Our D really wasn't that great. They really need more passrush AND better coverage. We could stop the run all day long, but couldn't get off the field consistantly on third down. I don't care where we rank in the league next year, but it will make a HUGE difference if our pass D improves to the point where we can consistantly force punts. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more then a WR ever could affect the outcome of a game.

WR is a need, just like TE is a need and CB and DE are needs. After that, you are right, we don't have many needs.

I'm torn on how to improve this defense. A prolific pass rusher off the edge would be very nice to pair with Suggs, but that would take one of our best players off the field. Having Ngata, Suggs, and another guy up front would be pretty stout.

We need our next Trevor Pryce, who can be on the field with Suggs, Ngata, and Edwards to rush the passer. Carlos Dunlap is the perfect body to play that role, but DT's with pass rushing abilities aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

Ngata - Edwards - Dunlap
JJ - Lewis - Ellerbe - Suggs

We need to replace that spot on the DL, not any place that would require putting JJ on the bench. And other than Dunlap, there aren't any guys that would be there at 1:25 to fill that role. I do see a few guys in round 2 that could do it though (Atkins, Alualu, etc).

I would rather grab one of those guys in the second, after a WR in the first, because I think that our needs reflect us drafting in that order, as well as the value being best in that order.


Tampa Bay has 2:3 and 2:10, might be a good trade partner to drop down and get D. Thomas and Hardy with those two picks.

[jonboy79]

I'm torn on how to improve this defense. A prolific pass rusher off the edge would be very nice to pair with Suggs, but that would take one of our best players off the field. Having Ngata, Suggs, and another guy up front would be pretty stout.

We need our next Trevor Pryce, who can be on the field with Suggs, Ngata, and Edwards to rush the passer. Carlos Dunlap is the perfect body to play that role, but DT's with pass rushing abilities aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

Ngata - Edwards - Dunlap
JJ - Lewis - Ellerbe - Suggs

We need to replace that spot on the DL, not any place that would require putting JJ on the bench. And other than Dunlap, there aren't any guys that would be there at 1:25 to fill that role. I do see a few guys in round 2 that could do it though (Atkins, Alualu, etc).

I would rather grab one of those guys in the second, after a WR in the first, because I think that our needs reflect us drafting in that order, as well as the value being best in that order.


Tampa Bay has 2:3 and 2:10, might be a good trade partner to drop down and get D. Thomas and Hardy with those two picks.

Jared Odrick, IMO would be the perfect fit for that role. He would probably provide good value at 1:25, I was hoping he would be available later, but that looks like a fantasy.

The problem is, that there are exactly 4 CB's that have #1 starting potential. All will likely be gone by early in the second round. I really feel that adding one of the trio (Parrish Cox, Patrick Robinson and Kyle Wilson) as Joe Haden iwll be long gone, will provide this team with both the biggest instant impact as well as a long lasting one. Corners of that talent simply aren't available late in any draft in reasonable quantites. Many talented WR's will be taken early on day 2 this year.

Similarly, Gresham is a great player, and probably has value at 1:25, but there are a handful of players I like nearly as much(especially considering injury) that will be available on midday of day 2.

I'm also pretty sold on Boldin for a third, and maybe a player, and think that completely changes the outlook for the next season at a reasonable cost. If Mason comes back into the fold as well, that makes draft day EASY.

[baltimore_hokie]

Cook out of UVa is a big guy (~6'2") that could be a nice physical presence for our secondary. He should be available in round 2 or 3.

I also think Carlton Mitchell could be Vincent Jackson 2.0. If we could get him in round 2, it would be a high-upside pick that would give Flacco a deep weapon right away.

[Dave Lap]

I disagree. I think we will be fine with Foxworth/Washington until Webb is ready to start. Those three are pretty solid as a group and are young as well, especially when you add Carr in as the fourth.

The play of the secondary down the stretch as very encouraging for the future. There is NO WAY that is a bigger need than WR.

I agree. If we're assessing team needs by position, WR stands head and shoulders above the rest.

After that comes the defensive back and defensive end and tight end. We need a guy who can rush the passer whether it be a LB or DE. Even a situational guy who is really good would help.