Why was Jim Harbaugh on the sidelines?

**purplepoe** · 12-09-2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

You know how the press works. The only reason it was brought up this week was because he mouthed off to a ref combined with a loss.

We then learn today that Jim and his father has been to other games before and the Dallas game gets mentioned.

Given this has happened before Monday night, you really think Green Bay was the first time both gave their coaching advise to whomever? You really think he pulled Cam / John aside and told him what play to run?

I am not making a value judgment here. We dont know if he was a help or a detriment. We dont know if he was a butt-in-sky or Cam valued the input.

I am simply saying people are assuming a lot based on very little information.

And I view it in very simple terms.

Where did I say he told Cameron what to run?

I simply said I don't like the idea no matter what he said.

PP

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-09-2009, 08:28 PM

Strawman Argument

Why is it so bad for an esteemed coach, that is the brother of our head coach, to be on the sideline of a game?

Actual Argument

How is it a good thing to have the family member of our head coach walking five yards onto the field during a live game and visibly appear to be harrasing an NFL referee during an NFL nationally televised game?

Folks, lets make sure we are debating the same thing here.

The idea that Jim H is communicating with the Ravens coordinators during the game is troublesome to me unless of course, they are asking for the help...which would probably concern me even more.

**effo5231** · 12-09-2009, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

The idea that Jim H is communicating with the Ravens coordinators during the game is troublesome to me unless of course, they are asking for the help...which would probably concern me even more.

Speaking of strawman arguments.... Assuming of course that Jim Harbaugh and Cam are decent enough friends, is it really all that shocking that Jim would let Cam know if was seeing something on the field that could help our team? Only very insecure people are afraid of good advice and if Jim notices something, who is harmed by him relaying it to Cam? Its not as if Cam has to listen, and its not as if Jim is pulling a TO and screaming at Cam to get his attention.

This is no more worrisome than if I was driving down the road and my buddy said "Check it out, we can get tacos at the next exit." His pointing out a taco stand does not mean he thinks I can't drive, read, or recognize that its always a good time for tacos.

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by effo5231

Speaking of strawman arguments.... Assuming of course that Jim Harbaugh and Cam are decent enough friends, is it really all that shocking that Jim would let Cam know if was seeing something on the field that could help our team? Only very insecure people are afraid of good advice and if Jim notices something, who is harmed by him relaying it to Cam? Its not as if Cam has to listen, and its not as if Jim is pulling a TO and screaming at Cam to get his attention.

This is no more worrisome than if I was driving down the road and my buddy said "Check it out, we can get tacos at the next exit." His pointing out a taco stand does not mean he thinks I can't drive, read, or recognize that its always a good time for tacos.

Not sure how finding it worrisome that Jim Harbaugh is interjecting himself into the flow of a game is a strawman nor do I see how your analogy elucidates that idea.

Cam and Mattison are pro football coordinators that prepare daily by watching pro football as well as watch tape and prepare for our opponent for the week leading up to the game. They understand the Ravens potential schemes through and through and hopefully have a decent understanding of our opponents potential schemes, tendencies and personel.

Jim Harbaugh does the same process on a college level and I imagine has equal understanding of the above mentioned dynamics on a Stanford level and whatever teams Stanford plays.

If Jim Harbaugh can come in and out-coach our own coaches by recognizing things these guys aren't seeing during the "fog of war" and relate that to them in the moment in a way that is truly helpful that would be an amazing thing to me.

I tend to believe that Jim Harbaugh lost sight of the context of why he was there...ie, watch from the sideline, interjected himself as seen on National t.v. and caused the Ravens organization a big problem. I am sure John told him that was a bad, bad thing in private and you will not see Jim Harbaugh do that again.

Now in public though John was put on the spot during an interview and tried to defuse the public problem by saying his coaches appreciate Jim. Of course those coaches and the Ravens organization will publicly support that idea and it will die a quiet death. That is a good thing. Most people will accept that explanation and think, "yeah sure the guy is a great coach...he was just helping...more hands on board!"

I don't buy it for a second. There is no way a million dollar coach with that amount on the line during live action of an NFL game is taking advice from a guy who has not spent 15 hours a day for the last week preparing for the opponent. There is just no way that happens in the NFL. No way...tacos or not.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-10-2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by effo5231

This is no more worrisome than if I was driving down the road and my buddy said "Check it out, we can get tacos at the next exit." His pointing out a taco stand does not mean he thinks I can't drive, read, or recognize that its always a good time for tacos.

Well done, Sir! :word

**xmradiodave** · 12-10-2009, 09:31 AM

It is all speculative. No one other than Jim and Cam know what exchange took place during the Cowboys game last season. For all we know, they were talking about the best place in Dallas to get a pizza.

**Mike B** · 12-10-2009, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

A very accomplished college coach, who is the brother of our head coach, was on the sidelines showing emotion and trying to get the team fired up and motivated....

... and you people have issues with that?

I do not care if he is the greatest college coach who ever lived, he does not belong out on the field arguing with the ref.

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-10-2009, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mike B

I do not care if he is the greatest college coach who ever lived, he does not belong out on the field arguing with the ref.

Unless it is a good time to eat tacos evidently. I think that is how the analogy goes. I wonder if I decided to run on the field because it was a good time to eat tacos if that would be ok? Mason should have told the refs when he was penalized for throwing his helmet a couple weeks ago, "Chill yo...its a good time to eat tacos". Maybe Tiger should tell the press that he was only having affairs when it was a good time to eat tacos and maybe then his behavior could be excused?

I like the line of thinking that if it is a good time to eat tacos then you can do whatever you please.

I mean I think that is what the anaolgy was all about?

Other than that, I have a hard time also understanding how a family member of our coach is standing five yards in the field of play arguing with the refs? Is Stanford in the Tositos Bowl?

**effo5231** · 12-10-2009, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

Unless it is a good time to eat tacos evidently. I think that is how the analogy goes. I wonder if I decided to run on the field because it was a good time to eat tacos if that would be ok? Mason should have told the refs when he was penalized for throwing his helmet a couple weeks ago, "Chill yo...its a good time to eat tacos". Maybe Tiger should tell the press that he was only having affairs when it was a good time to eat tacos and maybe then his behavior could be excused?

I like the line of thinking that if it is a good time to eat tacos then you can do whatever you please.

I mean I think that is what the anaolgy was all about?

Other than that, I have a hard time also understanding how a family member of our coach is standing five yards in the field of play arguing with the refs? Is Stanford in the Tositos Bowl?

For all the crap you give people for intentionally misunderstanding an argument and feigning ignorance as a debate tactic in the political forum... I find this post incredibly hypocritical.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-10-2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by effo5231

For all the crap you give people for intentionally misunderstanding an argument and feigning ignorance as a debate tactic in the political forum... I find this post incredibly hypocritical.

Welcome to the reason I wont show my face in there anymore.

My ignore list increased by one today.

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-10-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by effo5231

For all the crap you give people for intentionally misunderstanding an argument and feigning ignorance as a debate tactic in the political forum... I find this post incredibly hypocritical.

I don't see much "intentional" misunderstanding of an argument over there but would welcome the humor for sure. Feigning ignorance as a debate topic...one of my favorites. Being the fan of Colbert that you are, one would think you expect you to appreciate the art. As far as being hypocritical, not sure if I am getting that part.

Just remember about 3 Strawmen ago, this thread was about Jim Harbaugh being on the field of play of and NFL game...and you are one who usually follows cogent structures in debate.

Tell HR that my feelings haven't been so hurt since Suzie Jenkins started ignoring me in third grade because I kept trying to kiss her. Then buy HR a shot of GM, rub his bald head for me and tell him its only an anonymous posting board.

**Rayvens52** · 12-10-2009, 10:45 PM

I really do not see the big deal here. So what if he is not a part of the team. I want ever person on the sideline with us to be fired up.

Really we look bush league because of that, why? I'm sure there are so many people going wow look how bush the Ravens are there head coach's brother is out there telling the Ref how fucking bad he is, wow glad that is not my team so we don't look bush league.

It is funny to me how so many in Bmore are so worried what others think. I think it is great to have a coach who has a Dad and brother who understand the game, get passionate over our team and are willing to try and help us win...I guess i'm just bush league though.

If I am Cam and my shit has been stinking the joint up as much as his has I would welcome an outside view. This team has not lived up to the hype so far, and by most of you need to do something different, well he has others trying to help this team win and now we are bush league.

Look i'm just as pissed as the next fan, I spend tons of money on tix and everything else and was hoping to get a home playoff game, but it is not going to happen. But it amazes me how so many of you are calling for our second year coach to be done. Yes this team has some holes, and yes he has to do a better job, but IMO I think he is a good young coach who has some learning to do but someone who is going to succeed.