Dilfer / Stover

[ravenjoe]

I'm a big supporter of Oz and company, always have been, always will be! But once in a while the Ravens Brass screw up, big-time imho. The first was when they released Trent Dilfer in favor of Elvis Grbac. And, the second, of course, was this year when they released a proven commodity in Stover to save both a roster spot, and some cap room. From the gitgo, I was vehemently against both moves. The Ravens pride themselves on retaining 'quality' people - well, you won't find two more 'quality' individuals anywhere than Dilfer and Stover. Dilfer was tossed aside after just winning a SB, even though the team was staunchly in his corner; and Matt was released, even though he wanted very much to remain a Raven. In Dilfer's case, did releasing him cost the Ravens a second run at the SB; and, in the second case, did releasing Stover cost the Ravens a return trip to the playoffs?? If the Ravens miss the playoffs by one game (i.e. the Viking game), I hope saving that second roster spot was worth it!!

[purplepoe]

They didn't release either guy.

I know it might sound like a technicality but both guys' contracts expired and were not released with any time left on their deals.

I've always believed that Dilfer would've struggled mightily without Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes lining up behind him. IMO we wouldn't have made the playoffs with Dilfer handing off to Terry Allen and Jason Brookins. The defense of 2000 was a once in a lifetime thing and IMO Dilfer was lucky enough to fall into the job because Banks couldn't handle what was a fairly easy job. Don't F it up.

And let's not forget that the Ravens did go 10-6 and won a road playoff game in Miami. It wasn't a completely lost season.

I guess the jury is still out with the Stover move because we are in the middle of the season. Would he have made the FG in Minn? I say there is a good chance but you never know. I mean, MAYBE Dilfer would've led us to another Super Bowl. But IMO, he did barely enough when he had the best D ever. Quite frankly, he was below average on the field.

PP

[Galen Sevinne]

just repeating what I said in the other thread;

I think there are moves that organizations/coaches make that are the right moves at the time but then in hindsight can be seen as bad decisions IF they do not work out.

For example,

Release Dilfer and bring in an Pro Bowl QB Grbac. I didn't hear any complaints about that move at the time except from my wife that took a liking to Dilfer because he cried after the SB win,

Release Stover because he wasn't consistent over 40 yards and didn't have the leg strength to kick the ball into the endzone creating the need for two roster spots for a place kicker,

Belichick playing the probablilities by going for it on 4th and 2.

These are decisions that I think the majority of informed individuals would choose but become suspect when probability doesn't pan out. There are alway extraneous variables such as :grbac: or Hauschka not being able to kick through the pressure or a receiver bobbling a pass that if caught cleanly gains a first down. These are the variables that affect probability.

Of course an argument could be made that a good coach or a good organization become good because they understand probability but more importantly forsee and adjust to the extraneous variable that affect probability as well.

[TTRaven]

I'm a big supporter of Oz and company, always have been, always will be! But once in a while the Ravens Brass screw up, big-time imho. The first was when they released Trent Dilfer in favor of Elvis Grbac.

Trent Dilfer 2000 stats:
59.3 completion %, 1,502 yards, 12 td's 11 int's

Elvis Grbac 2000 stats:
59.6 completion %, 4,169 yards, 28 td's 14 int's

Every team in the NFL would have replaced Dilfer with Grbac. He was coming off a pro bowl season.

[Thrall]

I am so tired of people crying about Trent Dilfer. First of all, as another poster already stated, Dilfer wasn't released, they chose not to resign him. Same with Stover. Dilfer was a below average QB who was lucky enough to have one of the greatest defenses of all time, and 2 exceptional tailbacks. Again, as another poster stated, ANY team would have replaced Dilfer, with Grbac, who just made the pro bowl.

[ravenjoe]

Dilfer had just won the SB; he was a leader; and he had the support of the team! As with Stover, Why Mess With Something That Is Not Broke! Grbac may have had the Stats, but Stats don't feed the bulldog!

[HoustonRaven]

As with Stover, Why Mess With Something That Is Not Broke!

It was broke.

His kickoffs were a good 7-10 yards shorter than usual. Yes, he still had the accuracy but we're now making judgements with history on our side.

At the time when the team had to make a decision, they made the right decision based on the info they had at the time.

It just turned out to be a bad one, which happens with every team in the league from time to time.

[psuasskicker]

People here seem to forget he was 50% from 40+ yards last season. He's only had one attempt from that distance this season, so let's not pretend that he's probably okay now because he hit it.

Stover was ineffective from any long range, and could fall off a cliff at any moment. Good for him that he's 100% in Indi so far this year. But here, cutting him is only looking like a bad decision "in retrospect." Just cause a decision doesn't work out doesn't mean it was a wrong one.

- C -

[riprulz8]

I am so tired of people crying about Trent Dilfer. First of all, as another poster already stated, Dilfer wasn't released, they chose not to resign him. Same with Stover. Dilfer was a below average QB who was lucky enough to have one of the greatest defenses of all time, and 2 exceptional tailbacks. Again, as another poster stated, ANY team would have replaced Dilfer, with Grbac, who just made the pro bowl.

AMEN, brother. I don't know how many times I have had to defend the FO's signing of Grbac. Just because, in hindsight, a move didn't work out, doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision at the time.

As someone already stated, when you can improve your team with a Probowl quarterback like Grbac and get rid of the "game manager" Trent Dilfer, it's a win. And as far as the sentiment that Trent was a proven commodity or a winner or that the team had his back, that's terrific, but Grbac was the superior talent. And when you have the chance and resources to upgrade, you do so.

Trent never won games for us; he did just enough not to lose. He rode the coattails of a once in a lifetime defense to a Superbowl win. The FO knew not to expect the same level of defensive dominance in 2001, so they decided to upgrade the positional of field general. GREAT MOVE!

However, anything less than a repeat would have been labeled a disappointing season. And when Gregg rolled over Jamal's knee and ended his season, Grbac's job became infinitely tougher. Could you imagine Dilfer trying to rely on Terry Allen and Jason Brookins to carry the load in the running game?

Grbac went 10-6 with such a team. Trent would not have faired so well.

[StingerNLG]

Can we PLEASE move the fuck on from this now?

Not to draw focus away from this wonderful topic, but Indy is coming to town, and unless our offense and defense get their collective shit together, we're going to get curbstomped on Sunday.

[Paintballguy]

Can we PLEASE move the fuck on from this now?

Not to draw focus away from this wonderful topic, but Indy is coming to town, and unless our offense and defense get their collective shit together, we're going to get curbstomped on Sunday.

Seriously. I'm more worried about stopping Manning. Who gives a flying fvck about goddamn kickers when Manning is going to be dropping bombs.

[Beerracuda]

After our Super Bowl victory, most people in that off-season knew that we desperately needed to upgrade our offense to compliment our stellar defense. The most glaring deficiency was at QB. Dilfer was nothing more than a caretaker at QB, with the team relying heavily on the running of Jamal Lewis, and the record breaking defense shutting down opponents, creating turnovers, and putting points on the board through those turnovers. Grbac was coming off a 4,000+ yard season, and was available. It was a very logical choice. Unfortunately, Jamal went down with a season ending injury during training camp, and we had to sign below average rushers like Terry Allen, Jason Brookins, and Moe Williams. Needless to say, our rushing attack suffered severely, so we had to rely on passing. Trouble was, every team knew that we had no rushing attack and that we had to rely on the pass. Had Jamal not gone down with that injury, we very well may have repeated as SB champs in 2001-2002. Even with the one dimensional offense, we still went 10-6 and beat Miami in the first round of the playoffs. As for Dilfer, he did absolutely nothing after he left Baltimore. He bounced around a few teams from Seattle, to Cleveland, to San Francisco. His post-Ravens stats are 508-908-31-38 55.9% 6047 yds in 6 seasons. Not exactly stellar. Not to mention that he only played in 8 regular season games with us anyway, in which he was 134-226-12-11 59.3% 1502 yds. It was definitely time for a new QB.

As for Stover, I wish I had a nickel for every time I read someone on this board complaining about Stover's kickoffs the past 2 seasons. Yes, Stover was a very good kicker for us over the years. But, as with every player, a team eventually has to replace their players. After all, Stover's going to be 42 years old this January. At what point do you finally say enough? Do you wait until he's 43? 44? 45? In the meantime, his productivity declines, probably costing you a few games, and his legacy is rather tarnished here in Baltimore. Oh, and just a reminder, Stover was unemployed up until a few weeks ago, when Vinatieri got injured. There's a reason he was unemployed, and he'd still be unemployed had it not been for Vinatieri's injury.

I know it's comforting to think about these two players, especially when thinking about the great 2000 season, but the fact is, one player was average at best, and the other is old. Eventually, we'll have to replace Ray Lewis and Ed Reed as well. And no doubt we'll probably be hearing the same complaints the season after each of those two leave the team. "We should never have let Ray Lewis go" "Ed Reed still had gas in the tank..." etc etc. Eventually, a team has to part ways with their best players. It sucks, but it's life, and it's reality. But in the meantime, don't fool yourself into thinking that Dilfer and Stover were anything more than what they were: Average in productivity at the time of their leaving.