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  1. #1
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    Exempt



    Quote Originally Posted by Nobama
    "So let me be clear: This isn’t about me. I have great health insurance, and so does every Member of Congress"
    Exactly. But you and every member of Congress are exempt from the steaming pile of shit you're serving on a paper plate to the American public.

    I suggest everyone learn about Section 102 of HR3200 (Obamacare Bill). Basically, if you have insurance through your employer when this bill kicks in but make ANY change to that coverage you will be forced into the government care (it will become null/void under HR3200). Also, you may as well say goodbye to your employer provided insurance as your employer would rather pay the gubmint (who would all but make it impossible for private insurers to compete) instead of a private insurance provider.

    Come on lefties, if this Bill is so fantastic why are the TOTUS and Congress exempt from it? Why isn't there any tort reform wording in it? Why not have wording exempting illegal aliens from coverage?*




    Last edited by 4G63; 07-23-2009 at 12:20 AM.




  2. #2
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    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Also, you may as well say goodbye to your employer provided insurance as your employer would rather pay the gubmint (who would all but make it impossible for private insurers to compete) instead of a private insurance provider.
    I can't understand why conservatives think it is a good thing to have health insurance be for profit? I get that for profit industries promote innovation, better products etc...but this is health insurance. It is different. Why are you ok with the execs at BC/BS making a profit off of your health insurance premiums? Do you really think that as a result of them making a profit off of you, you will get better care if you are sick and have to go into the hospital? Or is it possible that because they have to make a profit, they just might find ways to deny coverage?

    Secondly, do you really think the people who answer the phones at BC/BS to authorize care are different than the people that answer the phones at Medical Assistance? They are the same. They have the same influence over whether a service is authorized or not. I talk to them every day...believe me, their competency levels are identical but guess what? I get paid more as a provider through med. assistance plans than BC/BS. I also have less paperwork to do through MS than BC/BC or Aetna or UBH or any other private plan.

    And guess what is also true? I provide the same level of care regardless of insurance plan.

    A government option, if passed, will set a true value for health care. Those squeezing out profits will, like you say, better either figure out how to compete or else will be gone. Yep that is true. As a result, you will get the same plan, same care for 2/3's the price of monthly premiums.

    This is all about Obama being on the cusp of doing something that has not been able to be done for the decades. If he passes healthcare reform, and many have failed before him, it will be historic and subsequently, he will be a historic president. To prevent this the republicans have come out with every scare tactic in the book;

    1. It will drive up the deficit 200 trillion dollars.
    -----nah, Obama has said repeatedly, it will have to be deficit neutral and briing down cost over the next 10 years. read that again. In fact read it twice.

    2. The big bad government will take over!
    -----Uh....explain to me how the carbon entity that answers the phones for MA are inherently different than the carbon entities that answer the phones for BC/BS

    3. Middle class taxes will pay for poor people! Small Businesses!

    ------Obama has said he will not put this on the backs of the middle class. read that again...and one more time. 2/3 of the bill is paid for by streamlning services and yes, the other 1/3 is still being worked out but by rolling back tax breaks to reagan era levels on the top 1.5%, it can be done. This is worth watching over the next couple of days and a reason to be concerned until it is figured out.

    Come on lefties, if this Bill is so fantastic why are the TOTUS and Congress exempt from it?
    You have the context of this statement out of whack. Obama made this comment in context to republicans saying such things as "this is Obama's Waterloo". Obama was pointing out how this debate from the republicans hasn't been about what is best for Americans but what is worst for Obama. Did you watch the speech to understand that context? It was very clear.
    Last edited by Galen Sevinne; 07-23-2009 at 10:27 AM.




  3. #3

    Re: Exempt

    For profit business are FAR more efficient. Part of this is the manner in which budgets function. For profit employees are praised for conserving resources. Government employees lose money from future bidgets for doing so. FOr Profit employees can get fired, and are therefore typically far less lazy. They have to worry about retaining their jobs and earnign raises.

    Obama has repeatedly said a lot of things. That doesn't mean they have come true. HE is a regressive taxer of the highest order. You can bet your bottom dollar that any financing for the healthcare plan will come from the bottom 95% of the country.

    Single payer systems will always have quota's, waiting lists and the like.

    Concierge care is the increasing phenomenon. Expect most quality doctors to remain in the pricate sector even with government takeover of the Insurance industry. People that desire top notch care will still have to pay for it.




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    Re: Exempt

    Galen, as far as the same Dolts behind the phones, you may be onto something:

    Minutes before a press conference where President Barack Obama could have been asked about the issue, the White House released a list of visits by health care executives.

    The Secret Service had earlier rejected a request for the same information, asserting executive privilege. The issue could have been an embarassment for Obama at the presser in light of his promises during the campaign to make public White House visitors and to conduct deliberations about health care in public.

    The public interest group which requested the records, Citizens for Ethics and Responsibility in Washington, filed suit earlier Wednesday over the denial.

    The list:

    Bill Tauzin visited the White House on March 5, May 19, June 2, and June 24.

    Karen Ignagni visited the White House on March 5, 6, and 11 and June 30.

    Richard Umbdenstock visited the White House on February 4, February 23; March 5, March 25, March 30; April 6, and May 22.

    J. James Rohack visited the White House on March 25, June 22, and June 24.

    William C. Weldon visited the White House on May 12.

    Jeffrey B. Kindler visited the White House on March 5, May 6, and June 2.

    Stephen J. Hemsley visited the White House on May 15 and 22.

    Angela F. Braly visited the White House on February 13.

    George Halvorson visited the White House on March 27 and June 5.

    Jay Gellert visited the White House on February 10, March 11, and March 20.

    Thomas Priselac visited the White House on April 3.

    Richard Clark visited the White House on March 24.

    Wayne T. Smith visited the White House on June 4.

    Rick Smith visited the White House on May 19 and June 2.

    In addition to the above information, the White House visitor records reflect that Mr. Tauzin, Ms. Ignagni, Mr. Umbdenstock, Mr. Rohack, Mr. Kindler, Mr. Halvorson, Mr. Gellert, Mr. Priselac, David Nexon, and Rick Smith were scheduled to attend a May 11 meeting at the White House. We understand that all the individuals attended the meeting except Mr. Kindler, and that Mr. Clark attended as well. Finally, the visitor records do not reflect any visits by the following individuals: Ben J. Lipps; William A. Hawkins, III; or Robert L. Parkinson.
    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/23...-execs-we-met/


    Hmmmm.......I'm wondering if they want to just make the BC/BS's and Keiser's the admin's of the system......




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    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    For profit business are FAR more efficient. Part of this is the manner in which budgets function. For profit employees are praised for conserving resources. Government employees lose money from future bidgets for doing so. FOr Profit employees can get fired, and are therefore typically far less lazy. They have to worry about retaining their jobs and earnign raises.
    This just isn't true. There is a naturally ascension in government work as there is in private work based on competency and reliability. Govt. workers can get fired just like private industry workers. The same DNA works for both...there is not a difference.

    Obama has repeatedly said a lot of things. That doesn't mean they have come true. HE is a regressive taxer of the highest order. You can bet your bottom dollar that any financing for the healthcare plan will come from the bottom 95% of the country.
    So far you have received $400 is tax breaks from Obama as he promised. Sure you can forecast and say whatever you want to say but the truth is at this point you are $400 richer because of Obama.

    Your logic here is no better than a 5 year old kid asking for the 5th time why he can't have a cookie and the parent finally just says, "because I told you so"

    Single payer systems will always have quota's, waiting lists and the like.
    Why? There is no basis for this point but I will wait to see what you come up with. Again, why can't I have that cookie?

    Concierge care is the increasing phenomenon. Expect most quality doctors to remain in the pricate sector even with government takeover of the Insurance industry. People that desire top notch care will still have to pay for it.
    This is true. I have friends who accept no insurance and are only take private pay. This will happen regardless of who is running the insurance market. In fact, those that I know, say they opt out of insurance panels because of the inefficiency of said "private" insurers. In my world you can choose to pay somoene $150 an hour or a copay of $20. That is an individual choice that will always be there and has not a thing to do with health care reform.




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    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    Galen, as far as the same Dolts behind the phones, you may be onto something:



    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/23...-execs-we-met/


    Hmmmm.......I'm wondering if they want to just make the BC/BS's and Keiser's the admin's of the system......
    Shouldn't Obama be talking to those who have experience runing insurance companies? God forbid if the guy asks questions od those who might have experience.

    Quoting Michelle Malkin doesn't add much to a post. It would be like be quoting Olberman to make a point.




  7. #7

    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    This just isn't true. There is a naturally ascension in government work as there is in private work based on competency and reliability. Govt. workers can get fired just like private industry workers. The same DNA works for both...there is not a difference.



    So far you have received $400 is tax breaks from Obama as he promised. Sure you can forecast and say whatever you want to say but the truth is at this point you are $400 richer because of Obama.

    Your logic here is no better than a 5 year old kid asking for the 5th time why he can't have a cookie and the parent finally just says, "because I told you so"



    Why? There is no basis for this point but I will wait to see what you come up with. Again, why can't I have that cookie?



    This is true. I have friends who accept no insurance and are only take private pay. This will happen regardless of who is running the insurance market. In fact, those that I know, say they opt out of insurance panels because of the inefficiency of said "private" insurers. In my world you can choose to pay somoene $150 an hour or a copay of $20. That is an individual choice that will always be there and has not a thing to do with health care reform.

    Go to the MVA or SSI and tell me that those people have legitimate pressure on them to work. Seriously. There are 3 people doing NOTHING for evewry one working. Accruing time and seniority is the top priority of a government employee.

    Woohoo? $400? 1-2 percent of the taxes I paid back? woohoo. Let's get happy about that when he is passing a Gigantic increase in energy taxes. It'll eat that $400 up in 3 months. Healthcare hasn't passed.

    You simply believe every word he says wihtout questioning or even looking into it. You are far more like that 5 year old then me.

    Concierge service will explode if public healthcare is passed. Trust ,e.




  8. #8
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    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Go to the MVA or SSI and tell me that those people have legitimate pressure on them to work. Seriously. There are 3 people doing NOTHING for evewry one working. Accruing time and seniority is the top priority of a government employee.
    oh and private workers never sit at work and do nothing? email, text. its human nature. walk into home depot, best buy, safeway and tell me people are sitting arouund doing nothing? You have a very idealized view of private industry. people are people regardless of where you work or for whom you work.

    Woohoo? $400? 1-2 percent of the taxes I paid back? woohoo. Let's get happy about that when he is passing a Gigantic increase in energy taxes. It'll eat that $400 up in 3 months. Healthcare hasn't passed.
    cap and trade will cost you about 15 bucks a month and that is a small price to pay for better carbon regulation. So at $15 a month that would be $180 a year. Subtract it from your $400 and you are still $220 up. And yes $220 isn't going to let you go out and buy your next tacky escalade with 22's but you are still up with Obama.

    Healthcare will be deficit neutral and will not be on the backs of the middle class. That is what Obama is saying and there is no reason to not believe him. If it changes then yes, I will have to see what the bottom line is. But for you to whine and cry about regressive taxes and the rest of the crap you seem to know little about is pretty lame. At the end of the first year of Obama's presidency you very ell could be +$220 with cleaner air and better health care.

    You simply believe every word he says wihtout questioning or even looking into it. You are far more like that 5 year old then me.
    You simply REFUSE to believe every word he says wihtout questioning or even looking into it.

    I tend believe what I experience. You seem to believe whatever the right wing noise machine is cranking up for the day.




  9. #9

    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    oh and private workers never sit at work and do nothing? email, text. its human nature. walk into home depot, best buy, safeway and tell me people are sitting arouund doing nothing? You have a very idealized view of private industry. people are people regardless of where you work or for whom you work.



    cap and trade will cost you about 15 bucks a month and that is a small price to pay for better carbon regulation. So at $15 a month that would be $180 a year. Subtract it from your $400 and you are still $220 up. And yes $220 isn't going to let you go out and buy your next tacky escalade with 22's but you are still up with Obama.

    Healthcare will be deficit neutral and will not be on the backs of the middle class. That is what Obama is saying and there is no reason to not believe him. If it changes then yes, I will have to see what the bottom line is. But for you to whine and cry about regressive taxes and the rest of the crap you seem to know little about is pretty lame. At the end of the first year of Obama's presidency you very ell could be +$220 with cleaner air and better health care.



    You simply REFUSE to believe every word he says wihtout questioning or even looking into it.

    I tend believe what I experience. You seem to believe whatever the right wing noise machine is cranking up for the day.

    And that Best Buy employee doesn't jsut have to be there for 30 years to make over 100k while STILL doing nothing?

    $15 a month eh? Tell me when the tax rate is up to 94%... tell me you only pay $17 for energy, becaue I know I pay nearly $2000 a month between my business and personal in "energy".

    $400 once, taxed for years? Do you see the sleight of hand?
    Go to a VA hospital and tell me Government Healthcare isn't a miserable failure.
    Private wealth will soon be a thing of the past for most of us.




  10. #10
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    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I can't understand why conservatives think it is a good thing to have health insurance be for profit? I get that for profit industries promote innovation, better products etc...but this is health insurance. It is different. Why are you ok with the execs at BC/BS making a profit off of your health insurance premiums? Do you really think that as a result of them making a profit off of you, you will get better care if you are sick and have to go into the hospital? Or is it possible that because they have to make a profit, they just might find ways to deny coverage?

    Secondly, do you really think the people who answer the phones at BC/BS to authorize care are different than the people that answer the phones at Medical Assistance? They are the same. They have the same influence over whether a service is authorized or not. I talk to them every day...believe me, their competency levels are identical but guess what? I get paid more as a provider through med. assistance plans than BC/BS. I also have less paperwork to do through MS than BC/BC or Aetna or UBH or any other private plan.

    And guess what is also true? I provide the same level of care regardless of insurance plan.

    A government option, if passed, will set a true value for health care. Those squeezing out profits will, like you say, better either figure out how to compete or else will be gone. Yep that is true. As a result, you will get the same plan, same care for 2/3's the price of monthly premiums.

    This is all about Obama being on the cusp of doing something that has not been able to be done for the decades. If he passes healthcare reform, and many have failed before him, it will be historic and subsequently, he will be a historic president. To prevent this the republicans have come out with every scare tactic in the book;

    1. It will drive up the deficit 200 trillion dollars.
    -----nah, Obama has said repeatedly, it will have to be deficit neutral and briing down cost over the next 10 years. read that again. In fact read it twice.

    2. The big bad government will take over!
    -----Uh....explain to me how the carbon entity that answers the phones for MA are inherently different than the carbon entities that answer the phones for BC/BS

    3. Middle class taxes will pay for poor people! Small Businesses!

    ------Obama has said he will not put this on the backs of the middle class. read that again...and one more time. 2/3 of the bill is paid for by streamlning services and yes, the other 1/3 is still being worked out but by rolling back tax breaks to reagan era levels on the top 1.5%, it can be done. This is worth watching over the next couple of days and a reason to be concerned until it is figured out.



    You have the context of this statement out of whack. Obama made this comment in context to republicans saying such things as "this is Obama's Waterloo". Obama was pointing out how this debate from the republicans hasn't been about what is best for Americans but what is worst for Obama. Did you watch the speech to understand that context? It was very clear.
    Explain to me why Medicare/Medicaid can't be fixed to address all of the current issues the uninsured face? If they're so bad what makes you think the current Bill would be better? Don't you think that tweaking/adjusting the current Medicare/Medicaid system would prove more beneficial as the infrastructure is also in place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Quoting Michelle Malkin doesn't add much to a post. It would be like be quoting Olberman to make a point.

    Her book is #1 at Amazon so she obviously has some support.....and its backed up with facts!
    Last edited by 4G63; 07-29-2009 at 12:44 PM.




  11. #11

    Re: Exempt

    OK, I have a company with 90 some employees. We have had to have our insurance requoted nearly every year, because of the automatic rising premiums. This year, it is costing over 700 dollars a month in premiums (per person, single coverage), and that's with a 1200 dollar deductible... Do the math... That's $8400 a year(per person x 90 = $756000) which means I have to charge that much more to my customers! Don't freakin' tell me we don't need reform... Don't tell me the insurance companies SHOULD be making billions in profit... when the small companies they service are struggling to survive. Don't tell me that we should be paying $3-400 for a prescription that costs $20 to produce. When I was a kid, I used to deliver prescriptions for a pharmacy in town. The average money collected was $4 to $8 and usually included more than 1 prescription and that was WITHOUT insurance. It's not just broken, it's a complete nightmare!
    The privately owned insurance companies' innovations to save money consist of denying coverage for whatever reasons they can dream up. They don't even try to institute cost saving measures involving more efficient record keeping, or more efficient test procedures, or anything else that would mean their percentage off the top would yield less for them! You can't possibly defend the system as it is! You can't possibly tell me that making billions off of health coverage is acceptable to you! Can you?... Really?
    It is a major part of a tanking economy! And it's getting worse! How can you defend a broken system that is causing YOUR quality of life to decrease? If it has not affected you yet, just wait, it eventually will, even if you NEVER need it!




  12. #12
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    Re: Exempt

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochardrik View Post
    OK, I have a company with 90 some employees. We have had to have our insurance requoted nearly every year, because of the automatic rising premiums. This year, it is costing over 700 dollars a month in premiums (per person, single coverage), and that's with a 1200 dollar deductible... Do the math... That's $8400 a year(per person x 90 = $756000) which means I have to charge that much more to my customers! Don't freakin' tell me we don't need reform... Don't tell me the insurance companies SHOULD be making billions in profit... when the small companies they service are struggling to survive. Don't tell me that we should be paying $3-400 for a prescription that costs $20 to produce. When I was a kid, I used to deliver prescriptions for a pharmacy in town. The average money collected was $4 to $8 and usually included more than 1 prescription and that was WITHOUT insurance. It's not just broken, it's a complete nightmare!
    The privately owned insurance companies' innovations to save money consist of denying coverage for whatever reasons they can dream up. They don't even try to institute cost saving measures involving more efficient record keeping, or more efficient test procedures, or anything else that would mean their percentage off the top would yield less for them! You can't possibly defend the system as it is! You can't possibly tell me that making billions off of health coverage is acceptable to you! Can you?... Really?
    It is a major part of a tanking economy! And it's getting worse! How can you defend a broken system that is causing YOUR quality of life to decrease? If it has not affected you yet, just wait, it eventually will, even if you NEVER need it!
    I think one of the problems is that it is hard for conservatives to 1.) understand that "for profit" in all instances is not a good thing and 2.) government beaurocrats are the same as private industry beaurocrats. It comes from the anti-government, pro-capitalism rethoric that forms the GOP. I have my particular anti-government and pro-capitalism views as well but you can't lookat EVERY situation through that lens.

    Everyone is paying too much for health insurance and the reason is simple...it is for profit. A public option would create the benchmark for what is SHOULD cost for adequate health insurance. Companies like yours, if you wanted to, could switch to a government plan - that would be run by the same people who run private insurance - and save between 25% annd 50% a year on health insurance. That could produce close to $400,000 profit a year for just your company.

    My story is thatI accept all types of insurance in my practice and I can attest to the benefits of medical assistance plans over private plans. There is no difference...I actually am paid more, not much more, but still more through M.A. and there is less paperwork. I think the people who oppose healthcare reform don't have any involvement in the industry other than seeing some money deducted from their paychecks each month.

    Today was a good day for reform as it appears that Waxman has reached some kind of compromise with the blue balls - I mean blue dogs without selling out the idea of a public option. In return the blue nutz shaved 100 billion of the price tag bringing the total price to below a trillion. this thing might still get done.

    Watch the commercials come out in the august recess about "BIG GOVERMENT SPENDING!" "OUT OF CONTROL DEFICTS" "DO YOU REALLY WANT A GOVENMENT BEAUROCRAT TO MAKE YOUR HEALTH DECISIONS?" And all the rest of the GOP scary messages. It might not matter though if the blue nutz are finally on board.

    Of course in the end it is really all about Obama. He has to feel good about today and the idea that this thing might get through without completely carving it up to nothing.




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