Barry? WTF are you doing?

**HoustonRaven** · 06-22-2009, 04:21 PM

One speech did not turn this tide. 75% of the country is under 35 and this has been brewing long before Obama got out of law school.

There were CIA plans dating back to Reagan that pushed for election rigging and the such to try and get a more moderate voice in the country. I'm not saying that's what happened here but to give credit to Obama is absurd.

The fomenting of revolt in this country has been going on for decades and these types of elections (and their aftermath) have happened before.

**HoustonRaven** · 06-22-2009, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

Good point HR. Everyone should just calm down and wait and see what happens. IMO doesn't matter they're trading one evil for another.

Exactly my point. There are dozen of mullahs slobbering at the chance to take this in their direction and not one of them are the kinds of people we want heading that country.

We dont need some knee-jerk reaction to this and I give Obama credit for that. But to also say Obama as any say in this process or is to receive credit for it is about as factually inaccurate as you can get.

**Galen Sevinne** · 06-22-2009, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

We dont need some knee-jerk reaction to this and I give Obama credit for that. But to also say Obama as any say in this process or is to receive credit for it is about as factually inaccurate as you can get.

I would disagree with the strength of these words. The Cairo speech validated the notion of reform in Iran. It was after that speech that talk of a revolt began and Mousavi gained in the polls. To say the Obama has absolutely nothing to do with elections in Lebanon and Iran is about as factually inaccurate as you can get.

Obama has done more to change the Muslim perception of America in 5 months w/o a invading a country than what could have been expected. You can argue around spending but I think it is very difficult to argue against how Obama has handled internationall affairs at this point.

Even newly appointed conservative golden boy Joe Scarborough says this about GOP members griping about Obama's stance om Iran;

""I just don't get them...All we would do is undermine those people in the streets the second they are attached to the United States of America. The country, after all, has been known in Iran as the Great Satan since 1979. We will undermine their cause and make no mistake of it, their cause is our cause....It's so shortsighted i find it stunning."

On another interesting note. Mark Sanford has evidently disappeared...his wife hasn't heard from him in days. Another GOP scandal on the horizon? Could they handle another one after "Promise Keeper" boy screwed the secretary?

**HoustonRaven** · 06-22-2009, 08:15 PM

If speeches meant something, then you have to give validity to Bush's "axis of evil" speech -- widely applauded in the middle east (see Iran) and loathed by the left here at home. Hell, you have to then also go back to Reagan's speech upon election that spoke directly to the Ayatollah and the hostage crisis.

North Korea and Iran have taunted Obama more in 5 months than they ever did when W was farting in the oval office. Say what you will about that cowboy (and again for the record, I am not a W fan), but you did not see anything close to this nonsense.

Im doubtful you're willing to go that far.

And Joe is nothing close to a conservative. Neocon yes. Classic conservative, not even close.

**Galen Sevinne** · 06-22-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

If speeches meant something, then you have to give validity to Bush's "axis of evil" speech -- widely applauded in the middle east (see Iran) and loathed by the left here at home. Hell, you have to then also go back to Reagan's speech upon election that spoke directly to the Ayatollah and the hostage crisis.

How are speeches not important?

I don't see how Bush by saying "you're either with us or against us" bridges any gaps in the American-Muslim chasm??? That is the "cowboy" stance that makes America look so arrogant that yes, for sure the left loaths. Obama's "we will will offer a hand if you unclench your fist" is the antithesis of "you are either with us or against us". That speaks more to the Muslim fundamental expectation of respect that "W" never understood.

Obama also has "street cred" because he is black and has muslim roots. There are things he can say that Bush or Reagan or even Clinton could have never said with the same effect and Obama uses that advantage well. The under 35 muslim crowd never responded to any American President as they did to Obama after the speech. As much as you will hate to hear it...he gave them hope....with a capital "H" Hope.

And Joe is nothing close to a conservative. Neocon yes. Classic conservative, not even close.

Have you been listening to him recently now that he is trying to sell hs book? he has completley ridiculed the social conservative movement and focused almost entirely on spending. I don'e see any neocon in him these days.

Truly I think you would benefit more from reading his book than Levine's or Coulter's 8th book on "I blame all liberals on the fact that I am a lonely and miserable individual and kids in high school picked on me because I looked like an alien"

**Dade** · 06-23-2009, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

Obama also has "street cred" because he is black and has muslim roots.

Thats has to be the funniest thing I've read in awhile. A little over the top with that one, aren't we.

**Galen Sevinne** · 06-23-2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dade

Thats has to be the funniest thing I've read in awhile. A little over the top with that one, aren't we.

There is a pretty wide consensus that only Obama could have delivered that speech based on his demographics. Even more so if you are comparing the efficacy of speeches given by Bush and Reagan towards the middle east.

Not sure what you mean by over the top? That notion has been widely reported on in the media by every side.

**Dade** · 06-23-2009, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

There is a pretty wide consensus that only Obama could have delivered that speech based on his demographics. Even more so if you are comparing the efficacy of speeches given by Bush and Reagan towards the middle east.

Not sure what you mean by over the top? That notion has been widely reported on in the media by every side.

I was laughing because you said since Obama is black and has muslism roots he has street cred. I'm sorry that's just stupid. Yes that has been reported in the media from every side, but do you even know what street cred means?

I think street cred means one thing to blacks and something completely different to everyone else.

It's like a few years back when that song Get Low by Lil John was very popular. Every white person was singing skeet skeet skeet skeet and had no idea what it meant.

**Galen Sevinne** · 06-23-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

I was laughing because you said since Obama is black and has muslism roots he has street cred. I'm sorry that's just stupid. Yes that has been reported in the media from every side, but do you even know what street cred means?

I think street cred means one thing to blacks and something completely different to everyone else.

It's like a few years back when that song Get Low by Lil John was very popular. Every white person was singing skeet skeet skeet skeet and had no idea what it meant.

My experience of the term "street cred" is one more generalized than just to black musicians. For me it means you have authentic life experience with whatever is being talked about. I don't think you need to be of a certain color or ethnicity. I would say "W" has more street cred giving a speech to white, evangelicals about the need to crush Islam than Obama. I am sure you would find that use even funnier.

**Dade** · 06-23-2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

My experience of the term "street cred" is one more generalized than just to black musicians. For me it means you have authentic life experience with whatever is being talked about. I don't think you need to be of a certain color or ethnicity. I would say "W" has more street cred giving a speech to white, evangelicals about the need to crush Islam than Obama. I am sure you would find that use even funnier.

Your right that made me laugh, maybe its just my weird sense of humor.

**4G63** · 06-23-2009, 06:15 PM

So he decided to listen to me after all......;)

(Basically, he pulled a Clinton, waiting to see how the general public felt and then make up your mind on how to feel.....)

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...55M0RI20090623

**Rochardrik** · 06-25-2009, 04:51 PM

I think the real point is being passed by here. The current gov't is claiming that the US is behind all the demonstrations. For Obama to start chiming in with verocity would just inflame the claim.
And to whoever stated that we have been pushing vote rigging, as if that's a good thing......Wha? Huh?
I feel for the Iranians . We helped overthrow thier gov't in the '50's to install a corrupt thief... the Shah, as dictator, then supported him when the Ayatollah urged revolution. The Iranian people have been through a lot.... much of it at our hands... So now we propose election rigging to make up for our blunders?