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  1. #31
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Except that your disdain should be for those that hate American's. since, well you are one. Instead you lvoe these people, and wonder what they think of Us... American makes the world a better place moreso then any nation in the world. If other countries don't see that, fuck 'em, they are not getting my tourism dollars...
    That may be true but how do we expect to defeat terrorism if we dont know how terrorist think. The first rule in war is to know thy enemy.

    Whether you think so or not other people's opinoin of America does matter. Negative opinions only hinder America's role as defender of democracy.




  2. #32
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Here's a little know fact about water boarding. The CIA have been water boarding and using other enhanced interrogation techniques for 50 years now. The Bush administration were the first to document such acts. A stupid move IMO.

    Of course the public would flip if/when they heard about water boarding. Myself am a little uncomfortable with it. Althrough the SEALS, DELTA and combat controllers go through it as part of their training.

    I'm a little split on this issue. I dont like the claim that now the terrorist know what to expect and therefore interrogations wont work. Everyone knows the US doesn't torture, we dont kill POWs.

    IMO the best intel comes from covert agents in the field. That tactic has proven hundred times over to provide reliable, credible intel. That is why covert operations take a huge chunk of the federal budget.

    I had a long talk with my first shirt a couple of weeks ago about this. He used to be a SERE instructor. He told me he wouldn't rely on any info gain during water boarding. As a SERE instructor he would water board the trainees. He said they got them to say anything they wanted. The point of the training was to see every man's breaking point. Once you reach that point your say anything and everything.




  3. #33
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Except that your disdain should be for those that hate American's. since, well you are one. Instead you lvoe these people, and wonder what they think of Us... American makes the world a better place moreso then any nation in the world. If other countries don't see that, fuck 'em, they are not getting my tourism dollars...
    can't remember ever saying that I "love these people" who hate americans. seriously Jonboy, you make up more stuff on these boards then you talk facts.




  4. #34
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAP View Post
    GALEN - She is the most PHOTO SEARCHED politician on the net. Thats because she is hot. Even most DEMs admit that. Even Michelle baby said she was cute.

    Thanks for proving my point that you hate white women. You hate Coulter too.

    Once saved you are always saved.
    but I love Contessa Brewer and Angelina Jolie. Hmmm so what should we think now Trap? Hard to hate white women and love Contessa and Angelina. hmmm...maybe I just dislike stooopid and loooooud women? White, black and purple...add men to that as well when they are stooopid and louuuuud a well.




  5. #35

    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Except that your disdain should be for those that hate American's. since, well you are one. Instead you lvoe these people, and wonder what they think of Us... American makes the world a better place moreso then any nation in the world. If other countries don't see that, fuck 'em, they are not getting my tourism dollars...
    You may well be the most naive person on earth.... you and most other Americans. Deep breath here!
    Let me start by saying that I am proud to be an American. I am also thankful to be an American.... But...
    We do good for others when it benefits us... almost exclusively. I can list at least 20 instances when our do-gooding(meddling) did more harm than good. Start with Afghanistan... There would have been no 911(probably) if we had completed our mission there. We(prodded by Sen Wilson) gave them aid when the Soviets were trying to take over there because they wanted direct access to the Black sea.. it was a valiant and grand act......until the Soviet Union collapsed. Then we withdrew, leaving the country with no government, thousands of rounds of ammo, explosive devices and just generally abandoned them. Mr. Wilson pleaded with Congress to aid them in the rebuilding of their country, but we felt no need to... Our objective was to stymie the Soviets, not to help the Afghans... we couldn't have cared less about them!. We were ONLY concerned about the spread of Communism... not the welfare of the Afghans. Subsequently, the Taliban took control of the country, and welcomed with open arms Bin Laden and his Al Quaida and 911 was conceived, developed, and deployed. This is absolute fact, and cannot be denied.
    In a similar scenario, we backed the crooked regime of the Shah of Iran, because he was our "friend". No matter that he was a thief, liar, and stole wealth from the people of Iran like a bandit in the night. When he was overthrown, we then turned to Saddam in Iraq to be our ally against Iran, taking advantage of the long standing fued between the two countries. WE built up Saddam's army, sold him weapons of all kinds, including aircraft, missles, the works. Then when he assailed the Kurds... with massive gas attacks, killing thousands, and the rest of the world urged sanctions against him for these aggregious acts, who stopped that effort? Ronald Reagan. He twisted arms and bent ears until all advocaters of sanctions were silenced... As Rush said in 1988.... So now the bleeding heart liberals want to crucify Saddam for gassing a few Kurds... liberal hate speech, I tell you, plain and simple. (Of course, many years later, that was one of the reasons he advocated ousting Saddam... what a ... you fill in the blank here... what DO you call a jackass who changes with the wind.. just to make a few million or so?... oh, yeah Rush Limbaugh).. So, all we did was set up Saddam to be a powerful foe... because it was in OUR interest... there was NO OTHER REASON!. You know the rest of the story(Paul Harvey).
    How about Noriega?
    How about Haiti?
    How many of you know that Ho Chi Minh sought help from Pres. Wilson post WWI to be free from the oppression of the (French?, I think it was,) but we ignored their plea, and he turned to the Soviets for help.... There was no benefit to us to help them right?.... whoa, that turned out good didn't it.
    The list goes on.
    And on...
    And most of it a result of our obsession with eradicating communism.
    The people who hate us are considered by uninformed Americans to be jealous... but that's only part of the equation. Since WWII, we have been meddling all over the world. The CIA was originally created to perform covert operations only... We toppled governments in a dozen or so countries... because it was good for US, not them.
    If you don't know this to be so, then you are uninformed, by the American form of propoganda.... Publicize the good deeds, hide the dirt. That's been our policy for too long
    The trouble is.... the rest of the world does not hear our version... They hear the facts... and quite possibly, hear it even worse than it may have been.
    That said, we now have a unique oppurtunity to begin to turn it around, and it HAS to start with acknowledgementof past failures and a promise to be globally concious instead of America first, last and always , and the rest of you, be damned!
    We may well be the greatest country on earth(once again), but the rest of the world matters, too......IMO




  6. #36
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAP View Post


    LOL - You found 2 white girls, big deal. Just 2? Thats like saying I never met a white female I didnt like.
    Trap you fall for the bait everytime and subsequently show the illogical nature of your original premise. The sadder thing is that you probably won't even understand what I just did to you and will keep doing it over an over again.




  7. #37

    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    can't remember ever saying that I "love these people" who hate americans. seriously Jonboy, you make up more stuff on these boards then you talk facts.
    Around here that means I fit in.

    I'm sorry, you must obviously constantly go on vacations to third world countries and places that hate Americans simply so you can observe how they act around Canadians then. Do you travel in England and France as a Canadian as well?




  8. #38

    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochardrik View Post
    You may well be the most naive person on earth.... you and most other Americans. Deep breath here!
    Let me start by saying that I am proud to be an American. I am also thankful to be an American.... But...
    We do good for others when it benefits us... almost exclusively. I can list at least 20 instances when our do-gooding(meddling) did more harm than good. Start with Afghanistan... There would have been no 911(probably) if we had completed our mission there. We(prodded by Sen Wilson) gave them aid when the Soviets were trying to take over there because they wanted direct access to the Black sea.. it was a valiant and grand act......until the Soviet Union collapsed. Then we withdrew, leaving the country with no government, thousands of rounds of ammo, explosive devices and just generally abandoned them. Mr. Wilson pleaded with Congress to aid them in the rebuilding of their country, but we felt no need to... Our objective was to stymie the Soviets, not to help the Afghans... we couldn't have cared less about them!. We were ONLY concerned about the spread of Communism... not the welfare of the Afghans. Subsequently, the Taliban took control of the country, and welcomed with open arms Bin Laden and his Al Quaida and 911 was conceived, developed, and deployed. This is absolute fact, and cannot be denied.
    In a similar scenario, we backed the crooked regime of the Shah of Iran, because he was our "friend". No matter that he was a thief, liar, and stole wealth from the people of Iran like a bandit in the night. When he was overthrown, we then turned to Saddam in Iraq to be our ally against Iran, taking advantage of the long standing fued between the two countries. WE built up Saddam's army, sold him weapons of all kinds, including aircraft, missles, the works. Then when he assailed the Kurds... with massive gas attacks, killing thousands, and the rest of the world urged sanctions against him for these aggregious acts, who stopped that effort? Ronald Reagan. He twisted arms and bent ears until all advocaters of sanctions were silenced... As Rush said in 1988.... So now the bleeding heart liberals want to crucify Saddam for gassing a few Kurds... liberal hate speech, I tell you, plain and simple. (Of course, many years later, that was one of the reasons he advocated ousting Saddam... what a ... you fill in the blank here... what DO you call a jackass who changes with the wind.. just to make a few million or so?... oh, yeah Rush Limbaugh).. So, all we did was set up Saddam to be a powerful foe... because it was in OUR interest... there was NO OTHER REASON!. You know the rest of the story(Paul Harvey).
    How about Noriega?
    How about Haiti?
    How many of you know that Ho Chi Minh sought help from Pres. Wilson post WWI to be free from the oppression of the (French?, I think it was,) but we ignored their plea, and he turned to the Soviets for help.... There was no benefit to us to help them right?.... whoa, that turned out good didn't it.
    The list goes on.
    And on...
    And most of it a result of our obsession with eradicating communism.
    The people who hate us are considered by uninformed Americans to be jealous... but that's only part of the equation. Since WWII, we have been meddling all over the world. The CIA was originally created to perform covert operations only... We toppled governments in a dozen or so countries... because it was good for US, not them.
    If you don't know this to be so, then you are uninformed, by the American form of propoganda.... Publicize the good deeds, hide the dirt. That's been our policy for too long
    The trouble is.... the rest of the world does not hear our version... They hear the facts... and quite possibly, hear it even worse than it may have been.
    That said, we now have a unique oppurtunity to begin to turn it around, and it HAS to start with acknowledgementof past failures and a promise to be globally concious instead of America first, last and always , and the rest of you, be damned!
    We may well be the greatest country on earth(once again), but the rest of the world matters, too......IMO
    Let's see who throws the most money at the next natural disaster. I'll bet dollard to donuts we more then double anyone else, and will likely surpass the rest of the contributions combined, as per usual.




  9. #39
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAP View Post
    Club Gitmo is keeping those terrorists from further hurting us.
    My only problem with holding terrorists at Gitmo is that the information/evidence we used to detain them isn't the best. The current CIA covert operation policy is basically to bribe people into giving up information. If a CIA agent gave me a few thousand dollars I'm sure I could think of "someone" to report.

    If there is undeniable, beyond a reasonable doubt, evidence that someone is a terrorist/collaborated with terrorist, I have no problem with locking them up in Gitmo forever. Sadly that isn't the case. This gives those at Gitmo a loophole to take advantage off.

    We are no longer fighting the Cold War. Our tactics are out of date. Our intel is shakey at best. Doesn't it make sense why we haven't capture Osama yet. The whole process needs to be overhauled and revamped.

    We are very fortunate to have made it 8 years without another attack. But if we continue to use these out of date tactics it wont be much longer.




  10. #40
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by TRAP View Post
    Yea Galen, like in Jollie, only in your dreams.

    Im so sick and tired of the things you do to me in here.

    yeah...I should stop tooling you all the time.




  11. #41
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Around here that means I fit in.

    I'm sorry, you must obviously constantly go on vacations to third world countries and places that hate Americans simply so you can observe how they act around Canadians then. Do you travel in England and France as a Canadian as well?
    I haven't been to Europe since the late 80's. I think maybe later this summer I might head over. Maybe I will identify myself as an American since the world is beginning to embrace us since we have an articulate and reasoned President these days. Who knows? I was really (and nicely) surprised by traveling folk in Africa who were entranced with Obama.

    At this rate, I might be able to accomplish my dream trek - Panjshir Valley, Afghanistan - before too long. I'll take you and Trap with me and show you what it feels like to be alive. You guys will have to leave your Lee Greenwood silk-screened polo shirts at home though.




  12. #42

    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Let's see who throws the most money at the next natural disaster. I'll bet dollard to donuts we more then double anyone else, and will likely surpass the rest of the contributions combined, as per usual.
    Wow, talk about skirting the issue!




  13. #43
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    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    I was in Europe during W and will be again in July for some U2 concerts.

    Americas reputation was not as bad as portrayed amongst the common folk. The European press loved to pile on W and made it seem much worse than it really was. It's a leftist talking point and nothing more.

    I will be very interested to see how Obama is portrayed b the common folks in Ireland. Given that Europe as a whole is heading right and in the opposite direction of Obama's policies, it will make for good bar talk when I hit Temple Bar.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  14. #44

    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I haven't been to Europe since the late 80's. I think maybe later this summer I might head over. Maybe I will identify myself as an American since the world is beginning to embrace us since we have an articulate and reasoned President these days. Who knows? I was really (and nicely) surprised by traveling folk in Africa who were entranced with Obama.

    At this rate, I might be able to accomplish my dream trek - Panjshir Valley, Afghanistan - before too long. I'll take you and Trap with me and show you what it feels like to be alive. You guys will have to leave your Lee Greenwood silk-screened polo shirts at home though.
    Afghanistan would be one of the last places on Earth I would go sorry. I don't like palling around with terrorists.




  15. #45

    Re: Conservative trashed DHS report now looking pretty accurate

    Quote Originally Posted by Rochardrik View Post
    Wow, talk about skirting the issue!
    How was that skirting around the issue, that WAS the issue. If a volcano wipes out some small town in Malaysia that has no commercial or military interests to ANYONE, who do you think rebuilds the town? Yes, that is a rhetorical question as every human on Earth knows that the VAST MAJORITY of funds and support would come from the US. That is not up for debate, and IS the issue we are speaking about.




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