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  1. #61

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenGordon View Post
    McLain blocks two players in that clip, on the outside... allowing him to walk into the end zone.
    I think you missed the point.

    Nag gata blocked Harrison on one TD run and Woodley on the other. I am not sure Heap would have or could have, or any of our RTs either.





  2. Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    And the guy who blocked Harrison on the first TD? Has a 7 in his jersey number. Ngata was the guy running around in a circle not blocking anyone.





  3. #63
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    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    OK how about in the playoffs?

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...-Steelers-2008

    Looks like 92 blocking 56 down the line for a walk in by Willis to that side.

    Nag gata on Harrison on the 1st TD.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...hee-highlights
    The first one I'll give you, that's a nice down block he lays on 56, but that's far from a walk in, Willis has to break a tackle to get outside, Ngata gets a block but it's not the story of the play.

    And on the first TD Ngata misses Harrison and Terry picks up the block.


    I personally don't think Ngata is an asset at all on offence at TE. He saw maybe ten snaps there last year and the number of times he made a block was minimal. I'd like to see more depth at TE so he doesn't need to be out there. At FB, I can see the benefit, get him running downhill and I'd fancy his chances to clear a hole, but at TE I want guys who practice there every day (be that TEs or extra tackles) making those blocks, not a gimmick package with a DT, an athletically gifted DT, but a DT never the less.





  4. Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    i remember him doing well at FB it seemed, but at TE he was not really a threat to catch the ball. it's nice to have the versatility either way.





  5. #65

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    The first one I'll give you, that's a nice down block he lays on 56, but that's far from a walk in, Willis has to break a tackle to get outside, Ngata gets a block but it's not the story of the play.

    And on the first TD Ngata misses Harrison and Terry picks up the block.


    I personally don't think Ngata is an asset at all on offence at TE. He saw maybe ten snaps there last year and the number of times he made a block was minimal. I'd like to see more depth at TE so he doesn't need to be out there. At FB, I can see the benefit, get him running downhill and I'd fancy his chances to clear a hole, but at TE I want guys who practice there every day (be that TEs or extra tackles) making those blocks, not a gimmick package with a DT, an athletically gifted DT, but a DT never the less.
    He may not have touched him on the 1st play but he made him run out of the way and that is just as good as a pancake block in that situation, touch down.

    Certian situations you would prefer to have a real TE out there, but there is no way around the fact that there is no way a guy beats Nagta in a shoving match. I would take him over a Sumo, and in the short yardage battles that win and lose football games, you need a guy like that you can count on to collapse the other side of teh line.





  6. #66

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    He may not have touched him on the 1st play but he made him run out of the way and that is just as good as a pancake block in that situation, touch down.

    Certian situations you would prefer to have a real TE out there, but there is no way around the fact that there is no way a guy beats Nagta in a shoving match. I would take him over a Sumo, and in the short yardage battles that win and lose football games, you need a guy like that you can count on to collapse the other side of teh line.
    I'd rather have Daniel Graham, Brandon Maleuna or Brandon Pettigrew over Ngata in any INLINE blocking situation... But as compared to Heap and LJ Smith, he may be better....
    I'll repeat, the fact that he played hte position AT ALL, as well as the HUGE number of times we went unbalanced was NOTHING but a coverup for the fact that we didn't have nearly enough inline blocking TE's for Cam's liking.





  7. #67

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I'd rather have Daniel Graham, Brandon Maleuna or Brandon Pettigrew over Ngata in any INLINE blocking situation... But as compared to Heap and LJ Smith, he may be better....
    I'll repeat, the fact that he played hte position AT ALL, as well as the HUGE number of times we went unbalanced was NOTHING but a coverup for the fact that we didn't have nearly enough inline blocking TE's for Cam's liking.
    Or maybe it was because it worked. Teams could not match up very well with our jumbo packages, while they did match up pretty well vs our base O or regular 2 TE sets.





  8. #68

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    I personally don't think Ngata is an asset at all on offence at TE. He saw maybe ten snaps there last year and the number of times he made a block was minimal. I'd like to see more depth at TE so he doesn't need to be out there. At FB, I can see the benefit, get him running downhill and I'd fancy his chances to clear a hole, but at TE I want guys who practice there every day (be that TEs or extra tackles) making those blocks, not a gimmick package with a DT, an athletically gifted DT, but a DT never the less.
    I must respectfully disagree Stockers. There are 4 things which tell me Ngata is effective:

    1. The defense overstacks around him
    2. They've run directly behind him on a good percentage of plays he's been in the game
    3. He hasn't once been submarined by his opposite number, something goal line defenders try to do to get a wall of bodies in front of the carrier. When the team has only 3 rotational DT's available due to an injury, they'll use an offensive lineman to submarine. Grubbs played a couple of snaps in 2009 and I can recall Orlando Brown doing so at least twice in 2003. I would guess that it is difficult for someone who is not a DT to do, To me, that's just another reason why having a big man on the outside is valuable.
    4. Heap has value as a receiver, but you don't need 5 guys in the pattern at the 1 yard line.
    5. There are a wider set of play calls available to Cameron with Ngata in because the opposition can't effectively "set the edge" on Ngata's side with a DE or LB. Stretch and off-tackle runs, which are more problematic on a short field become real possibilities with him in.

    Even if you think his blocking is raw, with which I agree, can't you project some improvement after he works on it for an entire camp? Ngata played 13 regular season snaps and 2 more at Pittsburgh in the AFCC. This might be a fun thing to review them all.





  9. #69

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    I must respectfully disagree Stockers. There are 4 things which tell me Ngata is effective:

    1. The defense overstacks around him
    2. They've run directly behind him on a good percentage of plays he's been in the game
    3. He hasn't once been submarined by his opposite number, something goal line defenders try to do to get a wall of bodies in front of the carrier. When the team has only 3 rotational DT's available due to an injury, they'll use an offensive lineman to submarine. Grubbs played a couple of snaps in 2009 and I can recall Orlando Brown doing so at least twice in 2003. I would guess that it is difficult for someone who is not a DT to do, To me, that's just another reason why having a big man on the outside is valuable.
    4. Heap has value as a receiver, but you don't need 5 guys in the pattern at the 1 yard line.
    5. There are a wider set of play calls available to Cameron with Ngata in because the opposition can't effectively "set the edge" on Ngata's side with a DE or LB. Stretch and off-tackle runs, which are more problematic on a short field become real possibilities with him in.

    Even if you think his blocking is raw, with which I agree, can't you project some improvement after he works on it for an entire camp? Ngata played 13 regular season snaps and 2 more at Pittsburgh in the AFCC. This might be a fun thing to review them all.
    I think you just gave yourself an assignment. 13 snaps is nothing compared to your normal projects, and if I'm not mistaken, you know exactly when and where he did play.
    I remember him being raw but effective.
    I seem to remember a play where he was on the move and pulled a very Todd Heap=esque Ole' completely whiffing, but when locked on to someone I don't remember him losing the battle.





  10. #70
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    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Filmstudy View Post
    I must respectfully disagree Stockers. There are 4 things which tell me Ngata is effective:

    1. The defense overstacks around him
    2. They've run directly behind him on a good percentage of plays he's been in the game
    3. He hasn't once been submarined by his opposite number, something goal line defenders try to do to get a wall of bodies in front of the carrier. When the team has only 3 rotational DT's available due to an injury, they'll use an offensive lineman to submarine. Grubbs played a couple of snaps in 2009 and I can recall Orlando Brown doing so at least twice in 2003. I would guess that it is difficult for someone who is not a DT to do, To me, that's just another reason why having a big man on the outside is valuable.
    4. Heap has value as a receiver, but you don't need 5 guys in the pattern at the 1 yard line.
    5. There are a wider set of play calls available to Cameron with Ngata in because the opposition can't effectively "set the edge" on Ngata's side with a DE or LB. Stretch and off-tackle runs, which are more problematic on a short field become real possibilities with him in.

    Even if you think his blocking is raw, with which I agree, can't you project some improvement after he works on it for an entire camp? Ngata played 13 regular season snaps and 2 more at Pittsburgh in the AFCC. This might be a fun thing to review them all.
    Ken, first up, got your e-mail and I'm not sure why Ngata's offensive snaps aren't showing up in the offensive breakdown, I've brought it to Neil's attention to see if it's a problem with the database.

    With regards Ngata blocking I certainly won't dispute his raw strength and power as a blocker and he has on occassion set the edge well and we've seen benefit from him, but all I'm saying is that I'd rather have more TEs on the roster some of whom are better blockers so that we don't need to put Ngata on the field. I still don't think we've achieved that necessarily and Ngata will again be out there by necessity than desire I think. Ideally I wouldn't want him on the field on offence, he brings something different to the field but I want him focusing on his defence. I really can't be bothered getting back in to the discussion about how good I and other posters here think Ngata currently is as an all round DT but he has other aspects of his game at his primary position that he needs to be working on camp, not working as a blocking TE.

    To my mind Ngata is out there because he's better as a raw blocker than what we've got at TE for goal-line sets to get that initial push. That to me says more about the quality of our TEs as blockers than it does about Ngata. That said I'd still rather put O'Neil Cousins or someone like that out there as an extra blocker than Ngata, it gets them reps on the field and (in spite of how relatively raw Cousins is) they are more technically accomplished than Ngata.





  11. #71

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    Ken, first up, got your e-mail and I'm not sure why Ngata's offensive snaps aren't showing up in the offensive breakdown, I've brought it to Neil's attention to see if it's a problem with the database.

    With regards Ngata blocking I certainly won't dispute his raw strength and power as a blocker and he has on occassion set the edge well and we've seen benefit from him, but all I'm saying is that I'd rather have more TEs on the roster some of whom are better blockers so that we don't need to put Ngata on the field. I still don't think we've achieved that necessarily and Ngata will again be out there by necessity than desire I think. Ideally I wouldn't want him on the field on offence, he brings something different to the field but I want him focusing on his defence. I really can't be bothered getting back in to the discussion about how good I and other posters here think Ngata currently is as an all round DT but he has other aspects of his game at his primary position that he needs to be working on camp, not working as a blocking TE.

    To my mind Ngata is out there because he's better as a raw blocker than what we've got at TE for goal-line sets to get that initial push. That to me says more about the quality of our TEs as blockers than it does about Ngata. That said I'd still rather put O'Neil Cousins or someone like that out there as an extra blocker than Ngata, it gets them reps on the field and (in spite of how relatively raw Cousins is) they are more technically accomplished than Ngata.
    I completely agree... I am still upset we got none of the three, Pettigrew, Richard Quinn and ANthony Hill in this past draft... We need a guy that can be a bit more of a threat to actually catch the ball, while being able to set the edge as good if not better...
    TE is the weakest position on this roster.





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