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  1. #37

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Honestly, I don't think the media has even a little bit of impact on how the NFL regards their free agents or what they pay them.
    Really? You really think this?

    The media is part of the voting process for post season awards. You don't think those awards have a bearing on what an agent will demand for his client?

    It's time for you to break on through to the other side





  2. #38

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mojo Rizon View Post
    Really? You really think this?

    The media is part of the voting process for post season awards. You don't think those awards have a bearing on what an agent will demand for his client?
    I think Jared Allen didn't win any awards two years ago and still signed a $72MM deal with $31MM guaranteed; at the time the richest deal ever for a defensive player.

    I think this year's DPotY was not Haynesworth, it was Harrison. Yet Haynesworth signed what was effectively a 4 year, $48MM deal with $41MM guaranteed; and Harrison signed a 6 year, $51MM deal with $20MM guaranteed.

    Yeah. I really think the media has very little to do with what these guys get paid.

    - C -
    ---------------------------------------------------

    www.oblongspheroid.com

    A blog about any and everything football.

    Twitter: oblong_spheroid





  3. #39

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Yeah. I really think the media has very little to do with what these guys get paid.
    Both Allen and Haynesworth were All Pros in '07 & '08. How does an NFL player become an All Pro. Hmmm, would you believe a nationwide panel of 50 writers and broadcasters who cover the NFL? I think they are credentialed members of the media.

    But I'm sure that notoriety had absolutely NOTHING to do with either player making all that coin. How naive of me.

    People are strange, When you're a stranger
    Faces look ugly, When you're alone.





  4. #40

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mojo Rizon View Post
    Both Allen and Haynesworth were All Pros in '07 & '08. How does an NFL player become an All Pro. Hmmm, would you believe a nationwide panel of 50 writers and broadcasters who cover the NFL? I think they are credentialed members of the media.

    But I'm sure that notoriety had absolutely NOTHING to do with either player making all that coin. How naive of me.
    Oh come on. You're acting like these guys would be completely unheard to all the other NFL GMs if the media weren't reporting on them! The Pro Bowl players are determined by the coaches, fans and players; that list is virtually the same as the All Pro list. It's not like it's some mystery who's great and who's not. Dan Snyder didn't pick up the paper one morning, see the list of All Pros, and say "Wow, that Haynesworth guy must be pretty good! I think I'll spend twelve mil a year and get me som'a that!"

    So what you're basically saying is that if the media hadn't voted Haynesworth an All Pro last year, that his deal would have been .... ???

    4 years, $36MM? Is 25% enough to consider that enough of an impact on his contract?

    4 years, $42MM?

    4 years, $46MM?

    If Albert Haynesworth wasn't an All Pro last year, I think there's pretty much no chance his deal was anything less than what it was.

    I'm sorry, but media people grossly overestimate their impact on how the NFL operates (or any sport for that matter). This cannot be more clear by the ridiculous abundance of mock drafts in the three months prior to the actual draft, and then the subsequent immediate passing around of draft grades regarding who got the best value in all of their picks.

    The perfect example of this is Cincinnati's draft this year. The media is falling all over themselves fawning over how awesome that draft was. You know what? Some 30ish other GMs passed on Rey Maualuga...some more than once. Same thing for Michael Johnson, except almost all of them passed on the guy more than once. That wasn't an accident. There's a reason he fell where he fell. The media saying he was a huge steal early in the third round is quite simply pretentious. If he was such a gigantic steal, then Chicago would have taken him as their DE two picks earlier. Or the Cardinals eight picks earlier. Or the Ravens 14 picks earlier. Or any of the other 12 teams that passed on him for a position other than DE before the Bengals took him where they did.

    Same thing here. Sorry, I cannot believe that the media has any material impact on what sort of a contract a player gets. Except one potential situation...if the media investigates something and uncovers a huge skeleton in a player's closet. Then yeah, sure they will. Otherwise, no, I don't buy it even a little bit.

    - C -
    ---------------------------------------------------

    www.oblongspheroid.com

    A blog about any and everything football.

    Twitter: oblong_spheroid





  5. #41

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Oh come on. You're acting like these guys would be completely unheard to all the other NFL GMs if the media weren't reporting on them!
    Down boy! Never said this...these are your words...as are these:

    Honestly, I don't think the media has even a little bit of impact on how the NFL regards their free agents or what they pay them.
    That's what I disagree with. The media does impact what these guys are paid. The aren't totally responsible but they have an impact. Moreover bigger media markets attract higher paid players.

    And in case you haven't checked, All Pro is more prestigious than Pro Bowler.

    Well, show me the way
    To the next whiskey bar
    Oh, don't ask why
    Oh, don't ask why





  6. #42

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by baltimore_hokie View Post
    a 3-4 DT is not asked to rush the passer,

    Are you trying to tell me that he's NOT asked to rush the passer? That's right I forgot. He's supposed to stand there and count 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi..If you asked any of the Ravens coaches they would disagree with you on that.

    Any evaluation of any defensive lineman must include their ability to rush the passer. The reason why your evaluation of Ngata is unsound is because you aren't factoring in a vital aspect of the position.

    He's almost elite as a NT but not quite there yet.

    Oh, sorry I forgot I'm not entitled to an opinion.





  7. Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    i'm saying that his primary task is to eat up blockers so that the other lineman/linebackers are at an advantage rushing the passer. he is asked to be huge and occupy multiple lineman, rather than be quick off the ball to rush the passer. look around the league at the other elite 3-4 DT's and they have a max of 5 sacks. the majority of the time, ngata collapsing the pocket would open up the middle of the defense to traps, screens, etc rather than producing sacks anyway. every play, we can count on the middle of the defense being clogged up and in place, that wall that ngata creates would not be there to solidify our defense and run game if he in constantly in the backfield. all i'm saying is that you can't compare stats from players from different systems equally, it's apples and oranges to look at fat albert's sacks vs ngata's sacks (like i said in previous posts looking at patrick willis, 4-3 MLB vs. 3-4 MLB, and ed reed vs other safeties). and if you think marcus stroud is really better than ngata, well i really don't need to continue this conversation.





  8. #44

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lap View Post
    Are you trying to tell me that he's NOT asked to rush the passer? That's right I forgot. He's supposed to stand there and count 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi..I think if you asked any of the Ravens coaches they would disagree with you on that.

    Any evaluation of any defensive lineman must include their ability to rush the passer. The reason why your evaluation of Ngata is unsound is because you aren't factoring that in appropriately.
    What Nagta did on the play he got the pick vs the Texans is what he is coached to do when he reads pass. Stay in his lane and become a pass defender, not a pass rusher. The Raven DTs other than Pryce seem to stop rushing and play zone D when they read pass.

    It does make sense when you see the rest of the D. They like to drop the LBs in coverage and need some help with the draws, screens and drag routes. Our Dts make a ton of tackles in pursuit because they do not get tangled up in a pass rush. I think that is also why BIg B is able to beat our blitz, because there is only one guy there to hit him and he has room to step up and avoid them with not much DT pressure pushing the pocket.
    Philly and the Titans were kicking the crap out of Ben with the Dts getting to him up the middle when he held the ball and tried to step up. The Titans did it without Haynesworth.

    Nagta should be able to get to the Qb more often than he has, and I think even if the new DC does not tell him to rush the Qb more his agent will.

    I think both Nagta and Suggs could get much better sack numbers in more of a 4-3 one gap attacking kind of scheme, and I think this DC will use a little more of those looks on passing downs and use different pressure packages than Rex.





  9. #45

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    [QUOTE= and if you think marcus stroud is really better than ngata, well i really don't need to continue this conversation.[/QUOTE]

    I never said word one about Marcus Stroud. Where did you get that?

    As far as continuing this conversation, why would I want to end it when you've been so delightful to talk with?





  10. Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    We only ran a 3-4 about 25-30% of the time last year so calling Ngata a 3-4 Nose is a bit of a stretch IMO.





  11. Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    we ran a 3-4 throughout this year, whether suggs/johsnon had their hand in the dirt or not. their ability to drop back in coverage or rush the passer doesn't change the fact that we still have 4 LB's on the field.





  12. Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by baltimore_hokie View Post
    we ran a 3-4 throughout this year, whether suggs/johsnon had their hand in the dirt or not. their ability to drop back in coverage or rush the passer doesn't change the fact that we still have 4 LB's on the field.
    3 LBs and 1 DE/OLB





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