Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

**awalt** · 05-21-2009, 07:04 AM

They say Ngata is the 4th best DT in the league!

Top 5 (they rated 20)

Albert Haynesworth
Kevin Williams
Vince Wilfork
Haloti Ngata
Chris Canty

extended him Oz!

**NC Raven** · 05-21-2009, 07:39 AM

Yes, hurry before they realize he's #1! God, if Hayesworth is worth 100 mil...

**RAVENOUS52** · 05-21-2009, 09:52 AM

The crazy part is he still has several years of IMPROVING left to do. Man, what an upside. We'd better lock him up ASAP, before he ends up collapsing O-lines for someone else.:(

**hookml** · 05-21-2009, 09:56 AM

I really don't think there is anyone more valuable to our defense right now. Everything we do on D starts with him plugging the hole. Definitely worth top $. Get 'er done Ozzie!

Can you post the link?

**UKRavenStockers** · 05-21-2009, 10:08 AM

I'll probably be a rare dissenting voice in this thread but their rankings for Wilfork, Ngata and Canty are all extremely generous in my opinion. Wilfork and Ngata are both tremendous against the run but aren't rounded football players, neither's ability as a pass rusher is good enough for me to consider them top 5 DTs, and as for Canty, he's barely played a down as a 4-3 DT in his career, he was a 3-4 end in Dallas and when he was in for their 4 man lines in passing situations it was at end as often as tackle.

Ngata's run defence isn't far short of being as good as there is, but his pass rushing is distinctly average, there are more than 3 better all-round DTs in the NFL CURRENTLY than Ngata for my money.

**RAVENOUS52** · 05-21-2009, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

I'll probably be a rare dissenting voice in this thread but their rankings for Wilfork, Ngata and Canty are all extremely generous in my opinion. Wilfork and Ngata are both tremendous against the run but aren't rounded football players, neither's ability as a pass rusher is good enough for me to consider them top 5 DTs, and as for Canty, he's barely played a down as a 4-3 DT in his career, he was a 3-4 end in Dallas and when he was in for their 4 man lines in passing situations it was at end as often as tackle.

Ngata's run defence isn't far short of being as good as there is, but his pass rushing is distinctly average, there are more than 3 better all-round DTs in the NFL CURRENTLY than Ngata for my money.

But do those dudes drop into coverage or play on offense like Ngata? Talk about well rounded!

**effo5231** · 05-21-2009, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

Ngata's run defence isn't far short of being as good as there is, but his pass rushing is distinctly average, there are more than 3 better all-round DTs in the NFL CURRENTLY than Ngata for my money.

Two things, 1. Ngata isn't supposed to be rushing the QB in our scheme... He's supposed to be eating blockers so Suggs, Gooden, Ray, and JJ can eat QBs. 2... Name the ones you think are better than Ngata.

**Jeremiah W** · 05-21-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by effo5231

Two things, 1. Ngata isn't supposed to be rushing the QB in our scheme... He's supposed to be eating blockers so Suggs, Gooden, Ray, and JJ can eat QBs. 2... Name the ones you think are better than Ngata.

yeah. The guy is as well rounded as an old school wooden keg. He is like a tree trunk that forklifts fat guys 2 yards back almost every snap. Falling on the Qb is not his thing, but a lot of guys are glad he is not the one that got there.

**UKRavenStockers** · 05-21-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by RAVENOUS52

But do those dudes drop into coverage or play on offense like Ngata? Talk about well rounded!

Not going to dispute that, but then most DTs aren't asked to drop into coverage, so it's an unfair comparison. There's no doubt Ngata can but compare the time or 2 a game Ngata drops into coverage compared to the destructive pass rushing ability of some of the other top DTs that Ngata could be chasing and the impact on passing downs is heavily against Ngata.

As for Ngata "eating blockers", he simply doesn't on passing downs, that's why he comes out on a lot of passing downs, because he's not good enough a pass rusher and we have better pass rushing interior linemen on our team. I'm not going to say he doesn't have an impact on this defence but in terms of pass rushing his play and impact is left lacking.

**psuasskicker** · 05-21-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

As for Ngata "eating blockers", he simply doesn't on passing downs, that's why he comes out on a lot of passing downs, because he's not good enough a pass rusher and we have better pass rushing interior linemen on our team.

This is only partially true. More accurate is to say that they need to give him a blow somewhere, so why not on those spots? He's still a decent pass rusher, he's just not as dominant at it as he is in other aspects of the game.

More to the point, name the DTs/NTs not on that list that you think are better? I don't know of any...

- C -

**yeahravens** · 05-21-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers

Not going to dispute that, but then most DTs aren't asked to drop into coverage, so it's an unfair comparison. There's no doubt Ngata can but compare the time or 2 a game Ngata drops into coverage compared to the destructive pass rushing ability of some of the other top DTs that Ngata could be chasing and the impact on passing downs is heavily against Ngata.

As for Ngata "eating blockers", he simply doesn't on passing downs, that's why he comes out on a lot of passing downs, because he's not good enough a pass rusher and we have better pass rushing interior linemen on our team. I'm not going to say he doesn't have an impact on this defence but in terms of pass rushing his play and impact is left lacking.

In a 3-4 scheme, the LB's are the pass rushers, in a 4-3 scheme there are DE's, in zone blitzing a DT is at linebacker and the linebacker blitzes. So if you watched the Ravens at all you would not make this argument because it doesn't apply and you can't support it.

How do INT's fit into your "well rounded" definition?

btw - Aaron Kampman had 62 tackles and 9.5 sacks at DT last year, Ngata had 55 tackles and 0 sacks. Who would you rather have?

***Kampman is 6'4" 265lbs and Ngata is 6'4' 345 lbs.

**Ravenswarrior19** · 05-21-2009, 01:27 PM

I'll agree that Wilfork is a head-scatcher to me. I just never seem to notice him being that disruptive (unless he's give a forearm shot to a QB's knee, or a 3 Stooges poke to someone's eye).

In terms of physical abilities, Shawn Rodgers was one of my top 3 DTs last year. His level of play, when he's on, is probably second to none. But I often wonder how well he can sustain that high level of play. I know we wore him out last year with Jason Brown, and making him chase Ray Rice on outside runs.

Kevin Williams is a disruptive freakshow whenever I have a Vikings game on. Reminds me completely of Sam Adams - he's in the backfield in a heartbeat, and he's bigger/stronger than anyone else on the field.

Ngata's got all the tools to be a great interior pass-rusher (strong, agile, quick, play's with great balance), but most of his pressures come more for scheme than flat out ability. I find it perplexing. Maybe if he was just a hair quicker off the ball, he would really ruin the offenses party.