Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 71
  1. #1

    Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best



    They say Ngata is the 4th best DT in the league!

    Top 5 (they rated 20)

    Albert Haynesworth
    Kevin Williams
    Vince Wilfork
    Haloti Ngata
    Chris Canty

    extended him Oz!




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,294
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Yes, hurry before they realize he's #1! God, if Hayesworth is worth 100 mil...




  3. #3

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    The crazy part is he still has several years of IMPROVING left to do. Man, what an upside. We'd better lock him up ASAP, before he ends up collapsing O-lines for someone else.

    UNLEASH THE BEASTS!!!!




  4. #4

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    I really don't think there is anyone more valuable to our defense right now. Everything we do on D starts with him plugging the hole. Definitely worth top $. Get 'er done Ozzie!

    Can you post the link?
    Last edited by hookml; 05-21-2009 at 10:11 AM.




  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    I'll probably be a rare dissenting voice in this thread but their rankings for Wilfork, Ngata and Canty are all extremely generous in my opinion. Wilfork and Ngata are both tremendous against the run but aren't rounded football players, neither's ability as a pass rusher is good enough for me to consider them top 5 DTs, and as for Canty, he's barely played a down as a 4-3 DT in his career, he was a 3-4 end in Dallas and when he was in for their 4 man lines in passing situations it was at end as often as tackle.

    Ngata's run defence isn't far short of being as good as there is, but his pass rushing is distinctly average, there are more than 3 better all-round DTs in the NFL CURRENTLY than Ngata for my money.




  6. #6

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    I'll probably be a rare dissenting voice in this thread but their rankings for Wilfork, Ngata and Canty are all extremely generous in my opinion. Wilfork and Ngata are both tremendous against the run but aren't rounded football players, neither's ability as a pass rusher is good enough for me to consider them top 5 DTs, and as for Canty, he's barely played a down as a 4-3 DT in his career, he was a 3-4 end in Dallas and when he was in for their 4 man lines in passing situations it was at end as often as tackle.

    Ngata's run defence isn't far short of being as good as there is, but his pass rushing is distinctly average, there are more than 3 better all-round DTs in the NFL CURRENTLY than Ngata for my money.
    But do those dudes drop into coverage or play on offense like Ngata? Talk about well rounded!




  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Owings Mills
    Posts
    1,155

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    Ngata's run defence isn't far short of being as good as there is, but his pass rushing is distinctly average, there are more than 3 better all-round DTs in the NFL CURRENTLY than Ngata for my money.
    Two things, 1. Ngata isn't supposed to be rushing the QB in our scheme... He's supposed to be eating blockers so Suggs, Gooden, Ray, and JJ can eat QBs. 2... Name the ones you think are better than Ngata.
    I already believe I am the best linebacker in the game. Now, I have to show one more thing ? That I am the most dominating, influential person in the game and the best football player to ever put on a pair of cleats. -Ray Lewis




  8. #8

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by effo5231 View Post
    Two things, 1. Ngata isn't supposed to be rushing the QB in our scheme... He's supposed to be eating blockers so Suggs, Gooden, Ray, and JJ can eat QBs. 2... Name the ones you think are better than Ngata.
    yeah. The guy is as well rounded as an old school wooden keg. He is like a tree trunk that forklifts fat guys 2 yards back almost every snap. Falling on the Qb is not his thing, but a lot of guys are glad he is not the one that got there.




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by RAVENOUS52 View Post
    But do those dudes drop into coverage or play on offense like Ngata? Talk about well rounded!
    Not going to dispute that, but then most DTs aren't asked to drop into coverage, so it's an unfair comparison. There's no doubt Ngata can but compare the time or 2 a game Ngata drops into coverage compared to the destructive pass rushing ability of some of the other top DTs that Ngata could be chasing and the impact on passing downs is heavily against Ngata.

    As for Ngata "eating blockers", he simply doesn't on passing downs, that's why he comes out on a lot of passing downs, because he's not good enough a pass rusher and we have better pass rushing interior linemen on our team. I'm not going to say he doesn't have an impact on this defence but in terms of pass rushing his play and impact is left lacking.




  10. #10

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    As for Ngata "eating blockers", he simply doesn't on passing downs, that's why he comes out on a lot of passing downs, because he's not good enough a pass rusher and we have better pass rushing interior linemen on our team.
    This is only partially true. More accurate is to say that they need to give him a blow somewhere, so why not on those spots? He's still a decent pass rusher, he's just not as dominant at it as he is in other aspects of the game.

    More to the point, name the DTs/NTs not on that list that you think are better? I don't know of any...

    - C -
    ---------------------------------------------------

    www.oblongspheroid.com

    A blog about any and everything football.

    Twitter: oblong_spheroid




  11. #11

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by UKRavenStockers View Post
    Not going to dispute that, but then most DTs aren't asked to drop into coverage, so it's an unfair comparison. There's no doubt Ngata can but compare the time or 2 a game Ngata drops into coverage compared to the destructive pass rushing ability of some of the other top DTs that Ngata could be chasing and the impact on passing downs is heavily against Ngata.

    As for Ngata "eating blockers", he simply doesn't on passing downs, that's why he comes out on a lot of passing downs, because he's not good enough a pass rusher and we have better pass rushing interior linemen on our team. I'm not going to say he doesn't have an impact on this defence but in terms of pass rushing his play and impact is left lacking.
    In a 3-4 scheme, the LB's are the pass rushers, in a 4-3 scheme there are DE's, in zone blitzing a DT is at linebacker and the linebacker blitzes. So if you watched the Ravens at all you would not make this argument because it doesn't apply and you can't support it.

    How do INT's fit into your "well rounded" definition?

    btw - Aaron Kampman had 62 tackles and 9.5 sacks at DT last year, Ngata had 55 tackles and 0 sacks. Who would you rather have?

    ***Kampman is 6'4" 265lbs and Ngata is 6'4' 345 lbs.




  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    1,228

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    I'll agree that Wilfork is a head-scatcher to me. I just never seem to notice him being that disruptive (unless he's give a forearm shot to a QB's knee, or a 3 Stooges poke to someone's eye).

    In terms of physical abilities, Shawn Rodgers was one of my top 3 DTs last year. His level of play, when he's on, is probably second to none. But I often wonder how well he can sustain that high level of play. I know we wore him out last year with Jason Brown, and making him chase Ray Rice on outside runs.

    Kevin Williams is a disruptive freakshow whenever I have a Vikings game on. Reminds me completely of Sam Adams - he's in the backfield in a heartbeat, and he's bigger/stronger than anyone else on the field.

    Ngata's got all the tools to be a great interior pass-rusher (strong, agile, quick, play's with great balance), but most of his pressures come more for scheme than flat out ability. I find it perplexing. Maybe if he was just a hair quicker off the ball, he would really ruin the offenses party.




  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahravens View Post
    In a 3-4 scheme, the LB's are the pass rushers, in a 4-3 scheme there are DE's, in zone blitzing a DT is at linebacker and the linebacker blitzes. So if you watched the Ravens at all you would not make this argument because it doesn't apply and you can't support it.

    How do INT's fit into your "well rounded" definition?

    btw - Aaron Kampman had 62 tackles and 9.5 sacks at DT last year, Ngata had 55 tackles and 0 sacks. Who would you rather have?

    ***Kampman is 6'4" 265lbs and Ngata is 6'4' 345 lbs.
    Thanks for that super simplistic view of defensive schemes. As for the 3-4/4-3 comparison I'm not entirely sure what that is relevant with regards to the Ravens, we play both fronts and in fact played more snaps last year in a 4-3 front than 3-4, not by much (about 27% to 23%) but more snaps in a 4-3.

    Also your comparison for Kampman I don't get what you're getting at in the slightest, Kampman played DE last year and will be playing 3-4 OLB this year for Green Bay, so I've no idea why you want to draw that comparison at all.




  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Norwich, England
    Posts
    2,093

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    This is only partially true. More accurate is to say that they need to give him a blow somewhere, so why not on those spots? He's still a decent pass rusher, he's just not as dominant at it as he is in other aspects of the game.

    More to the point, name the DTs/NTs not on that list that you think are better? I don't know of any...

    - C -
    I agree with you that it makes sense to give him a blow on passing downs when we've got better interior pass rushers, but I also think it's an indictment of his pass rushing skills that it is so simple to give him his breaks on passing downs. If he was as rounded a DT as guys like Kevin Williams and Haynesworth etc. that many want to compare Ngata to he'd be getting his breaks on running and passing downs to keep him out there on the key passing plays as well.

    For our scheme and for what we ask him to do I'm not going to dispute that Ngata (822 snaps in 19 games, 43.2 snaps per game) is as good as there is in the league and I'd not trade him in for anyone considering what he can do now within our scheme and his future upside, but in terms of all-round ability as a DT compared to others around the league he wouldn't make my top 5 just yet. His play against the run alone determines that he's a top 10 talent, but I can't put him in my top 5 yet. That'd go something along the lines of:

    - Kevin Williams - Brutally disruptive against run & pass, been doing what Haynesworth does for longer and not merely in contract years. (995 snaps in 17 games, 58.5 snaps per game)

    - Albert Haynesworth - He may have only fulfilled his potential in his contract years but he was brutally dominant in both run and pass, Ngata can match his play against the run but his pass rushing is world's different. They're different players in that regard but Haynesworth is still the markedly better player IMO. (735 snaps in 15 games, 49 snaps per game)

    - Jay Ratliff - This one I'll probably get shouted down for but he is the centre-piece of the Cowboys D-line, was even with Chris Canty in town and he shows what an NT can do rushing the passer and taking on one-on-one blocks in the middle of the line, particularly against centres who are typically the least athletically gifted players on the O-line. Not going to attract the double teams that Ngata does but in terms of beating blocks to make tackles he's as good and rushing the passer he's massively better. (694 snaps in 16 games, 43.4 snaps per game)

    - Marcus Stroud - Again, all round talent at DT. Slipped under the radar with his move to Buffalo but he was superb and unnoticed last year both against the run and pass. (Not done the Bills full season yet but currently 457 snaps through 9 games, 50.8 snaps per game)

    - Jamal Williams - Slowing down with injuries but still absolutely class up the middle of the Chargers defence against the run. This is who Ngata will likely push past in the near future but I don't think he's quite there yet. (Not done the Chargers full season yet but currently 462 snaps through 11 games, 42 snaps per game)


    I guess what this all boils down to is how you balance a DT's play against the run in comparison to their play as a pass rusher. If you just want the run defence then sure, Ngata is probably top 5, probably top 2 with Williams. But I think you've got to respect the true force as pass rushers that the likes of Williams, Haynesworth and Ratliff are and give them their due as being a level above Ngata as all-round DTs.

    As a break down of Ngata's snaps last year as with these guys above, Ngata played 822 snaps in 19 games, 43.2 snaps per game. In those 822 snaps he played the run 358 times, rushed the passer 438 times and dropped into coverage 26 times. For those 438 pass rushes he got 2 sacks (week 8 against Oakland & Conference title game in Pittsburgh)) and hit the QB 9 times. Not exactly massive returns for the number of times after the QB, even for an NT.

    Again, I'm not saying Ngata isn't up there, but he's not quite in the top level just yet IMO.




  15. #15

    Re: Sporting News Today - Ngata 4th best

    I would not trade Nagta for any of those guys. Kevin Williams and Tommie Harris when healthy are awsome and more in the Sapp mold, but I still would rather have the big 2 gap guy that may not get the sack but will collapse the pocket if not doubled. Nagta forces a lot of 3rd and longs by blowing up run plays, and may cause us to get a sack or turnover even when he is resting on the sideline.




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland