April '09 - Wall Street's best month in 9 years

[effo5231]

once again,,,, if you throw enough money at the problem it will correct itself,,,,TEMPORARILY,,,, when oby the commie gets re-elected in a few years because everything is going well and people generally vote their wallet,,,, then the shit will hit the fan,,, the gov't will have to print more and more money in order to paydown debt,,, and even galen has to understand that when the money supply is inflated and dollars are worth less that equals less goods and services you can purchase with that same dollar,,,,,IE INFLATION,,, and the interest rates and inflation rates that carter gave us will pale by comparison

Which might be a good thing to consider except right now we're in a phase where the dollar is deflating in value.

[Galen Sevinne]

Which might be a good thing to consider except right now we're in a phase where the dollar is deflating in value.

Production is down, wages are down, prices continue to go down. Its an easy argument to make that when money is "printed' then inflation occurs. Everyone gets that and that is a very elementary argument but the problem is we are in a period of deflation right now so the argument of inflation is invalid. We actually need some inflation...inflation would be a good thing right now.

Now of course no one wants to see interest rates of 18% again but I just refinaced at a 30 yr. fixed rate and .375% points for 4.5%. That is insane...money is cheaper than ever.

Obama is wanting to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. We will see if he can. He is ending a lot of the tax loopholes right now. I can see a middle class tax increase in year three of his 1st term but if the economy has stabilized and we are looking at healthcare with it, that would be a good thing.

At least the guy is doing something and not just letting everything come to a crashing halt like the last 8 years and yeah if Trap wasn't on detention he would say that Bush had the greatest wall street of all time but as I would remind the Trapster...it was on borrowed money. Obama is doing it all with real money.

[jonboy79]

Production is down, wages are down, prices continue to go down. Its an easy argument to make that when money is "printed' then inflation occurs. Everyone gets that and that is a very elementary argument but the problem is we are in a period of deflation right now so the argument of inflation is invalid. We actually need some inflation...inflation would be a good thing right now.

Now of course no one wants to see interest rates of 18% again but I just refinaced at a 30 yr. fixed rate and .375% points for 4.5%. That is insane...money is cheaper than ever.

Obama is wanting to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. We will see if he can. He is ending a lot of the tax loopholes right now. I can see a middle class tax increase in year three of his 1st term but if the economy has stabilized and we are looking at healthcare with it, that would be a good thing.

At least the guy is doing something and not just letting everything come to a crashing halt like the last 8 years and yeah if Trap wasn't on detention he would say that Bush had the greatest wall street of all time but as I would remind the Trapster...it was on borrowed money. Obama is doing it all with real money.

Real Money? Did you really just say that? He printed 2 TRILLION dollars in one week in February. THat's even worse monopoly money then Bush built a SOARING economy on.
Cut the deficit in half? THat's pure campaign talk. He has no such plans. Look at his first budget, He QUADRUPLED the deficit in his first try, so now he has to cut in in 1/8th to get back to half of hte original....

The average priduct and service will continue to rise in price. The only things reducing in price are large credit based objects that people can't readily, currently afford. When inflation starts, you won't think it's a good thing.

[Greg]

Which might be a good thing to consider except right now we're in a phase where the dollar is deflating in value.

I think you are confused a bit.

Inflation is the definition of the dollar deflating. Inflation refers to the cost of things purchased. If those things cost more dollars the dollar has deflated or lost value.

Deflation is the lowering of the cost of things. This is the result of the dollar becoming more valuable in relation to the things you purchase.

Either one happening at too much of a pace is bad, but if you have to experience rampant inflation or deflation, deflation is better. History is full of economies, government and currencies that survive deflation despite the tough economy that results (Great Depression, for example). History is also full of economies, governments and currencies that are completely destroyed by rampant inflation (see several Latin American examples, Weimar Republic, etc).

Attempting to inflate our debt away, which is what is being tried, is a VERY dangerous game and could easily lead to a catastrohpic result (and I mean a real catastrophe, not these modern day inconveniences and social ills continually called such).

[effo5231]

I think you are confused a bit.

Inflation is the definition of the dollar deflating. Inflation refers to the cost of things purchased. If those things cost more dollars the dollar has deflated or lost value.

Deflation is the lowering of the cost of things. This is the result of the dollar becoming more valuable in relation to the things you purchase.

Either one happening at too much of a pace is bad, but if you have to experience rampant inflation or deflation, deflation is better. History is full of economies, government and currencies that survive deflation despite the tough economy that results (Great Depression, for example). History is also full of economies, governments and currencies that are completely destroyed by rampant inflation (see several Latin American examples, Weimar Republic, etc).

Attempting to inflate our debt away, which is what is being tried, is a VERY dangerous game and could easily lead to a catastrohpic result (and I mean a real catastrophe, not these modern day inconveniences and social ills continually called such).

No no... you called it, this is what I get for posting while so tired I'm practically drunk.

[Rochardrik]

I think you are confused a bit.

Inflation is the definition of the dollar deflating. Inflation refers to the cost of things purchased. If those things cost more dollars the dollar has deflated or lost value.

Deflation is the lowering of the cost of things. This is the result of the dollar becoming more valuable in relation to the things you purchase.

Either one happening at too much of a pace is bad, but if you have to experience rampant inflation or deflation, deflation is better. History is full of economies, government and currencies that survive deflation despite the tough economy that results (Great Depression, for example). History is also full of economies, governments and currencies that are completely destroyed by rampant inflation (see several Latin American examples, Weimar Republic, etc).

Attempting to inflate our debt away, which is what is being tried, is a VERY dangerous game and could easily lead to a catastrohpic result (and I mean a real catastrophe, not these modern day inconveniences and social ills continually called such).

Is it not also a catastrophe when crime doubles, or triples because of recession?.. Or when people begin to starve ? Or fathers kill themselves and their whole family because of recession/depression?... some of this is happening now!!!

Such was the case in the "great depression" and the only thing that changed that was the "New Deal" which you conservatives are soooo quick to point out did not solve the depression. Immediately upon the creation of the CCC, however,crime rates fell by half, suicide rates dropped, and otherwise decent citizens who had been struggling with the option of dieing or stealing, had jobs. something to do, and what they did was an INCREDIBLE boost to our Country. Roads, bridges and Dams were built that provided the country with electricity, and more importantly, roadways to transport the fighting machinery which was built for WWII.
Ignoring the people most affected by a recession/depression as deep as this one is not an option... Yes, printing money is NOT a desirable idea... but what else will serve as a stop gap?... Reducing taxes for those who speculated and cheated the market because of relaxed regulation?
That's not a sensible solution. I expect that choosing a route that tends to heal some of the wounds while the economy stabilizes again is a far better option.
After all, this economy bottomed out while tax reductions were in place. Lowering taxes to induce trickle down economics has been proven to be cyclical.. meaning it works for a time, then bottoms out... Which logically means that it is NOT the solution!.....

[Galen Sevinne]

Is it not also a catastrophe when crime doubles, or triples because of recession?.. Or when people begin to starve ? Or fathers kill themselves and their whole family because of recession/depression?... some of this is happening now!!!

Such was the case in the "great depression" and the only thing that changed that was the "New Deal" which you conservatives are soooo quick to point out did not solve the depression. Immediately upon the creation of the CCC, however,crime rates fell by half, suicide rates dropped, and otherwise decent citizens who had been struggling with the option of dieing or stealing, had jobs. something to do, and what they did was an INCREDIBLE boost to our Country. Roads, bridges and Dams were built that provided the country with electricity, and more importantly, roadways to transport the fighting machinery which was built for WWII.
Ignoring the people most affected by a recession/depression as deep as this one is not an option... Yes, printing money is NOT a desirable idea... but what else will serve as a stop gap?... Reducing taxes for those who speculated and cheated the market because of relaxed regulation?
That's not a sensible solution. I expect that choosing a route that tends to heal some of the wounds while the economy stabilizes again is a far better option.
After all, this economy bottomed out while tax reductions were in place. Lowering taxes to induce trickle down economics has been proven to be cyclical.. meaning it works for a time, then bottoms out... Which logically means that it is NOT the solution!.....

The Obama Admin. is doing this the right way. For every negative economic indicator that comes out there are 3-4 positive indicators. Conservatives will just keep pounding the liberal tax and spend mantra that they have always pounded and continue to become more irrelevant. I see that as a good thing until another party forms that is less socially backwards.

Successful companies borrow and/or spend money all the time to increase their strength. This is no different. I have complete faith that Obama wants nothing more than to spend the money AND then reduce the deficit. That will be the final smackdown of the idea that if you cater to the top 5% of the wealthy the rest of the country will be better off.

Speaking of irrelevant excursions into the wingnuttia...today's big GOP talking point is the criticize Obama for not publicly praying on T.V. in the White House. For all the conservative literal constitutionalists out there what a joke. The constitution is hallowed grounds when their semi-automatic assault rifles are threatened but when it comes to their gods...well, then ya' know, its just another document.

Sean Hannity had a whole bit last night about Obama requesting spicy mustard on his hamburger instead of ketchup....and how elitist that is! Hannity is losing viewers because even he is not as unhinged as apocaplyptic Glenn Beck so he has to try to be even nuttier.

[Rochardrik]

The Obama Admin. is doing this the right way. For every negative economic indicator that comes out there are 3-4 positive indicators. Conservatives will just keep pounding the liberal tax and spend mantra that they have always pounded and continue to become more irrelevant. I see that as a good thing until another party forms that is less socially backwards.

Successful companies borrow and/or spend money all the time to increase their strength. This is no different. I have complete faith that Obama wants nothing more than to spend the money AND then reduce the deficit. That will be the final smackdown of the idea that if you cater to the top 5% of the wealthy the rest of the country will be better off.

Speaking of irrelevant excursions into the wingnuttia...today's big GOP talking point is the criticize Obama for not publicly praying on T.V. in the White House. For all the conservative literal constitutionalists out there what a joke. The constitution is hallowed grounds when their semi-automatic assault rifles are threatened but when it comes to their gods...well, then ya' know, its just another document.

Sean Hannity had a whole bit last night about Obama requesting spicy mustard on his hamburger instead of ketchup....and how elitist that is! Hannity is losing viewers because even he is not as unhinged as apocaplyptic Glenn Beck so he has to try to be even nuttier.

Did he ask for mustard on his French fried putaters, as well?... Maybe he's really Billy Bob Thornton.
I'll say it again.... This is all Bush's fault for making the pact with the "Christian Coalition" (which he called "fruitcakes" behind their backs)
"Faith based initiative", another attempt to wrangle votes, while mangling the founding principles of this country. Geesh, just how bad did he leave this country? It will be years before the damage is fully assessed...Heh-Heh....

[Greg]

Is it not also a catastrophe when crime doubles, or triples because of recession?.. Or when people begin to starve ? Or fathers kill themselves and their whole family because of recession/depression?... some of this is happening now!!!

Crime among your average American did not go up. The gangs dealing in illegal booze and their fights were the cause of crime rates going up. Save a guy here or there stealing a watermelon for his family to eat, crime did not go up among your average American in the 30s.

Nobody starved either. Yes, there were soup lines and the like, but again, nobody starved.

And despite your claims, murder/suicide among families is higher now, and even recently when the economy was good.

AAMOF, I have read that crime rates (even when including the illegal booze trade) went down from the 20s to the 30s.

Such was the case in the "great depression" and the only thing that changed that was the "New Deal" which you conservatives are soooo quick to point out did not solve the depression.

Your opinion. Mine, the New Deal lengthened the Great Depression.

Above I was talking about fiscal policy of the Fed and it had nothing to do with liberalism vs. conservatism. You guys can't see past that and simply knee-jerk responses in defense of Obama.

We are headed for hyper-inflation.

[Galen Sevinne]

Did he ask for mustard on his French fried putaters, as well?... Maybe he's really Billy Bob Thornton.
I'll say it again.... This is all Bush's fault for making the pact with the "Christian Coalition" (which he called "fruitcakes" behind their backs)
"Faith based initiative", another attempt to wrangle votes, while mangling the founding principles of this country. Geesh, just how bad did he leave this country? It will be years before the damage is fully assessed...Heh-Heh....

I think Obama asked for onion rings. He knew how upset the Right would have been if he was to send a "covert" socialist innuedo to Sarkozy by ordering French Fries.

[Galen Sevinne]

Crime among your average American did not go up. The gangs dealing in illegal booze and their fights were the cause of crime rates going up. Save a guy here or there stealing a watermelon for his family to eat, crime did not go up among your average American in the 30s.

Nobody starved either. Yes, there were soup lines and the like, but again, nobody starved.

And despite your claims, murder/suicide among families is higher now, and even recently when the economy was good.

AAMOF, I have read that crime rates (even when including the illegal booze trade) went down from the 20s to the 30s.


Your opinion. Mine, the New Deal lengthened the Great Depression.

Above I was talking about fiscal policy of the Fed and it had nothing to do with liberalism vs. conservatism. You guys can't see past that and simply knee-jerk responses in defense of Obama.

We are headed for hyper-inflation.

I think the knee jerk reaction is against conservative fiscal policy which most agree is not the way out of this recession nor was it the way out of the great depression....as most historians would agree.

Conservative fiscal policy's argument to further shrink an already recessed economy isn't getting a lot of love from most of the economists. The only people touting it right now are the millionaire conservative pundits that like Rush who just said, "I just refuse to participate in the recession". Sooner or later the rest of the 21% of the country that still buys that load of crap will also reject it.

[Galen Sevinne]

There is starting to be a shift here of late as more and more Republicans are starting to come clean. Remember that the upper-bracket taxes were at 36%under Bush...Obama wants to roll it back to Clinton-era taxes which were 39%. Hardly enough to elicit tea parties especially when you consider that under Reagan it was as high as 50%.

"Representative Patrick McHenry of North Carolina, a conservative who keeps a bust of Reagan on his desk, surprised me by declaring that the Reagan era is over. Marginal tax rates are the lowest they've been in generations, and all we can talk about is tax cuts, he said. The people's desires have changed, but we're still stuck in our old issue set."

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,...896588,00.html

some sensibility coming from the Right. We'll see how long it takes for Rush to speak out against this new threat of reason.