Putin warns US about Socialism.

**jonboy79** · 04-20-2009, 09:04 PM

http://www.therightperspective.org/p...bout-socialsm/

Thoughts from our resident socialists?

**RustonRifle** · 04-21-2009, 12:23 PM

Bush looked deep into Putins soul and said "he is a good man".........

**Galen Sevinne** · 04-22-2009, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

http://www.therightperspective.org/p...bout-socialsm/

Thoughts from our resident socialists?

Would you trust Putin if he suggested we scrap our nukes? Trusting what Putin suggests is like trusting Cheney right now or Karl Rove. Now I understand his point saying that complete government intervention is not a good thing and no one is suggesting that here including Obama.

Here are two good articles that are short and easy reads. If you are following the news daily you will notice that right wing media is beginning to realize that America in general is not frightened by socialism and calling Obama a socialist or warning about the trending socialist country is not getting the traction the right thought it would. So what is the right doing now? Changing the rethoric to fascism...as if most people even understand what fascism is and if they really do would actually believe that Obama is a fascist. Read the link:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...es_of_fascism/

following that read the equally short and easy read by Bernie Sanders on socialism:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...and_socialism/

What you will find is a strong dose of reality if you take the time to read them and be open to the ideas.

**jonboy79** · 04-22-2009, 10:25 AM

He certainly has some fascist traits, that is for sure. He is certainloy very uni-partisan, and suppressive of other views...

"The effort to subordinate the individual to an authoritarian state?" There is no doubt this is occuring.

Newt Gingrich recently asserted that Democrats are trying to move the country "towards a political dictatorship."

I think this is true as well.

That LeHigh article is so ridiculously biased I can't imagine it was published in a major newssource. WOW.

"We have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world. Our childcare system is inadequate. Too many children drop out of school, and college is increasingly unaffordable. We have more people in jails and prisons than any other country in the world.

Let's be clear. Finland is no utopia. Its economy today is not immune to what is happening in the rest of the world. There also are, to be sure, important differences between the United States and Finland. Finland has a very homogenous population of only 5.2 million; we are extremely diverse. Finland is the size of Montana; we stretch 3,000 miles."

I think that is clearly the most importatn article. Finland sounds great, I'd rather move there then try and recreate it here. It won't work here. Greed is far too stepped in, laziness is a job requirement for government workers and government oversight in general is NIL. The largerthe government is in this country, the less efficient we will be as an economy, the more the Have's shrink in numbers and grow in wealth, the poorer the middle class.

Look, eveyrone knows, as a concept, socialism and communism look great on paper. They simply fail miserably in real life. OUr Nation, with it's current makeup and populace, would make for a catastrophic failure. It would be mass poverty.

"Whether we live in Burlington, Vt., or Montgomery, Ala., we should be prepared to study and learn from the successes of social-democratic countries. Name-calling and scare tactics won't do."

I fon't disagree with this in the slightest. I encourage ALL liveral's who applaud these policies to pick up a history book and study and learn for themselves what happens when Humans get involved in socialism.

NO oversight.
Mass Corruption, which leads to,
MASS POVERTY.

Finland can do it, that doesn't surprise me. I think VT could do it to. It is a state full of similarly thinking people, with similar values and goals. Hard work and self reliance are par for the course. Crime is very low.

**RustonRifle** · 04-22-2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

He certainly has some fascist traits, that is for sure. He is certainloy very uni-partisan, and suppressive of other views...

"The effort to subordinate the individual to an authoritarian state?" There is no doubt this is occuring.

Mix in invading a nation, toppling its government and setting up a puppet state friendly to your own and you've just described the bush presidency.

**Rochardrik** · 04-22-2009, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

He certainly has some fascist traits, that is for sure. He is certainloy very uni-partisan, and suppressive of other views...

"The effort to subordinate the individual to an authoritarian state?" There is no doubt this is occuring.

Newt Gingrich recently asserted that Democrats are trying to move the country "towards a political dictatorship."

I think this is true as well.

That LeHigh article is so ridiculously biased I can't imagine it was published in a major newssource. WOW.

"We have the highest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world. Our childcare system is inadequate. Too many children drop out of school, and college is increasingly unaffordable. We have more people in jails and prisons than any other country in the world.

Let's be clear. Finland is no utopia. Its economy today is not immune to what is happening in the rest of the world. There also are, to be sure, important differences between the United States and Finland. Finland has a very homogenous population of only 5.2 million; we are extremely diverse. Finland is the size of Montana; we stretch 3,000 miles."

I think that is clearly the most importatn article. Finland sounds great, I'd rather move there then try and recreate it here. It won't work here. Greed is far too stepped in, laziness is a job requirement for government workers and government oversight in general is NIL. The largerthe government is in this country, the less efficient we will be as an economy, the more the Have's shrink in numbers and grow in wealth, the poorer the middle class.

Look, eveyrone knows, as a concept, socialism and communism look great on paper. They simply fail miserably in real life. OUr Nation, with it's current makeup and populace, would make for a catastrophic failure. It would be mass poverty.

"Whether we live in Burlington, Vt., or Montgomery, Ala., we should be prepared to study and learn from the successes of social-democratic countries. Name-calling and scare tactics won't do."

I fon't disagree with this in the slightest. I encourage ALL liveral's who applaud these policies to pick up a history book and study and learn for themselves what happens when Humans get involved in socialism.

NO oversight.
Mass Corruption, which leads to,
MASS POVERTY.

Finland can do it, that doesn't surprise me. I think VT could do it to. It is a state full of similarly thinking people, with similar values and goals. Hard work and self reliance are par for the course. Crime is very low.

No oversight....isn't that what just caused the stock market collapse?
Mass corruption....Isn't that what just caused the stock market collapse?... in part , at least? not to mention the periods of our country being run by Boss Tweed, etc, etc, etc. Talk about mass corruption... with the little guy paying the bill, serving as slaves to the Carnegies and Gettys, et al?

Mass Po
verty.... as opposed to all wealth being controlled by 1% of the population?
All the points you have made reflect the world we now live in... a product of uncontrolled capitalism. You understand so little, evidently just what your agenda driven rightwingnuts tell you, that you can't define and identify just what is, and isn't socialism, or what is, and what isn't a good form of socialism.
The real problem with failed socialist experiments, or whatever you call them is that the people who instituted them had only one goal, and it had nothing to do with the welfare of the "people". Those social environments that have worked.. Finland for one... have succeded because the stated goal WAS the actual goal... improve the lot of the general public.
The words "endowed with certain unalienable rights, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" do not preclude social aspects. As a matter of fact, our capitalistic society prohibits, yea, prevents this from being a reality. Wouldn't availability to free education through graduate school make this pesky "pursuit of happiness" thing a real possibility? Health insurance is already a form of socialism... whay not make it available to ALL? Let's say you and I buy health insurance of the same coverage at the same age, and pay the same premiums. You get sick and have hundreds of thousands of $ of bills paid. I remain healthy and do not require any hospitilization, or treatment, or medicine? MY PREMIUMS are paying for your illness. F..k you! I'm not paying for your health care!!!!! That's socialism!!!!! Aha, but that is how it works!! and that's a good thing! Now, how about taking it a step further and cover the person without a job who is sick, who, because of having been treated goes on to be the next brilliant surgeon who saves your life down the road?

**Rochardrik** · 04-22-2009, 02:06 PM

[That LeHigh article is so ridiculously biased I can't imagine it was published in a major newssource. WOW. ]
Yeah, we'd rather see a quote from a completely biased source..like the Akron home journal, or "News from the Bradys"(These do not actually exist, but are modeled after the sources that Trap regularly quotes), and since it is in print it must be true, right?
That Lehigh article is so spot on, I can't imagine a conservative actually reading it and understanding it!... Oh, I see, They didnt.

**Galen Sevinne** · 04-22-2009, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

He certainly has some fascist traits, that is for sure.

Is it? name them? better yet, name a policy that the administration has put through that would qualify as a fascist policy?

Did you see all of the tea baggers when they were asked if they thought Obama was Fascist?

Never once did one of the baggers support the notion that he is a fascist. There only reply was "because he is!" "its obvious" In other words, levin told me he was, Rush told he was, Mike Church told me he was, Hannity told me is was.

Someone told that person how to think.

So be the first to document actual evidence that Obama is a fascist.

**Rochardrik** · 04-22-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

Would you trust Putin if he suggested we scrap our nukes? Trusting what Putin suggests is like trusting Cheney right now or Karl Rove. Now I understand his point saying that complete government intervention is not a good thing and no one is suggesting that here including Obama.

Here are two good articles that are short and easy reads. If you are following the news daily you will notice that right wing media is beginning to realize that America in general is not frightened by socialism and calling Obama a socialist or warning about the trending socialist country is not getting the traction the right thought it would. So what is the right doing now? Changing the rethoric to fascism...as if most people even understand what fascism is and if they really do would actually believe that Obama is a fascist. Read the link:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...es_of_fascism/

following that read the equally short and easy read by Bernie Sanders on socialism:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...and_socialism/

What you will find is a strong dose of reality if you take the time to read them and be open to the ideas.

These are both very good reads, very reasonable stuff. Being so rationally written, and very simple to understand, they SHOULD serve to make people realize that the current panic is unsubstantiated and just sour grapes from sore losers. Alas, nonesuch. How dare you bring sanity to the subject... We want to be outraged, and no amount of facts is going to stand in our way!!!!

**Galen Sevinne** · 04-22-2009, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rochardrik

No oversight....isn't that what just caused the stock market collapse?
Mass corruption....Isn't that what just caused the stock market collapse?... in part , at least? not to mention the periods of our country being run by Boss Tweed, etc, etc, etc. Talk about mass corruption... with the little guy paying the bill, serving as slaves to the Carnegies and Gettys, et al?

Mass Paverty.... as opposed to all wealth being controlled by 1% of the population?
All the points you have made reflect the world we now live in... a product of uncontrolled capitalism. You understand so little, evidently just what your agenda driven rightwingnuts tell you, that you can't define and identify just what is, and isn't socialism, or what is, and what isn't a good form of socialism.
The real problem with failed socialist experiments, or whatever you call them is that the people who instituted them had only one goal, and it had nothing to do with the welfare of the "people". Those social environments that have worked.. Finland for one... have succeded because the stated goal WAS the actual goal... improve the lot of the general public.
The words "endowed with certain unalienable rights, Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" do not preclude social aspects. As a matter of fact, our capitalistic society prohibits, yea, prevents this from being a reality. Wouldn't availability to free education through graduate school make this pesky "pursuit of happiness" thing a real possibility? Health insurance is already a form of socialism... whay not make it available to ALL? Let's say you and I buy health insurance of the same coverage at the same age, and pay the same premiums. You get sick and have hundreds of thousands of $ of bills paid. I remain healthy and do not require any hospitilization, or treatment, or medicine? MY PREMIUMS are paying for your illness. F..k you! I'm not paying for your health care!!!!! That's socialism!!!!! Aha, but that is how it works!! and that's a good thing! Now, how about taking it a step further and cover the person without a job who is sick, who, because of having been treated goes on to be the next brilliant surgeon who saves your life down the road?

Be careful...you are making the same mistake you accused me of several days ago. Being reasonable.

You can't try to appeal to the cerebrum of the conservative...it will never work. You need to attack the amygdala of the conservative to have an impact. its the more undeveloped reptilian side of the brain that senses fear. they like that kind of stimulation. listen to cheney for about 5 minutes to learn how to do it better.

**Galen Sevinne** · 04-22-2009, 05:37 PM

[QUOTE=TRAP;141702]

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

Be careful...you are making the same mistake you accused me of several days ago. Being reasonable.

And that from a guy who uses OPEN LEFT.COM

from a guy that has been posting for three years and still hasn't figured out how to

block

a quote!

**jonboy79** · 04-22-2009, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne

Be careful...you are making the same mistake you accused me of several days ago. Being reasonable.

You can't try to appeal to the cerebrum of the conservative...it will never work. You need to attack the amygdala of the conservative to have an impact. its the more undeveloped reptilian side of the brain that senses fear. they like that kind of stimulation. listen to cheney for about 5 minutes to learn how to do it better.

We feel the smae freaking way bro. How many times have I asked you to pick up a HISTORY book and tell me when Socialism, mass defecit spending, or anythign like what we are heading into has EVER worked, EVER.