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  1. #31

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)



    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    There's one other reason that I haven't seen yet, and it's the most painful one to hear: simple bad luck.

    Sometimes, the ball's just not going to bounce your way. Heap fumbles and the Colts recover. We hit a deep strike with flags flying and the receiver (can't remember who) fumbles, so we have to take a five-yard penalty instead. We force a fumble and it rolls out of bounds. The Colts KR flubs two kicks, but the ball stays near him, so he has time to pick it up and get a few yards back, rather than having to fall on it. We tip away a couple of passes that would have otherwise been interceptions. Vinatieri's kick hits the crossbar and bounces over, so his last kick has a chance to seal the game by putting them up two possessions.

    This is not intended as an excuse for shoddy offensive play, or to say that we deserved to win the game. But it was a factor. Our defense did a tremendous job and Manning looked awful again, and we held one of the top three offenses in the NFL without a touchdown. Our offense was lethargic and McNair played a miserable game.

    Still, if we catch a couple more breaks and the luck had evened out, we might be talking about hosting the Pats right now.
    You nailed it. Hey, Indy won the game fair and square, but man, it sure did seem like every bounce went their way.




  2. #32

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    I am sick and tired of hearing this crap about killing the clock at the end of the half. It is real easy in the cheap seats to second guess that decision, but it made a lot of sense.

    There was about one minute left and the Colts had 2 time outs. If we start throwing the ball, we keep the clock from moving and, unless we get a first down, punt it away with appx. 40 seconds (or whatever) left to a Colts team with 2 time outs and a dangerous passing game. Plus to open the 2d half the Colts would get the ball.

    Was it conservative? Yes. Did the fans like it? No. But neither of those things means it was wrong, and I personally think it's just goofy to suggest anyone playing or coaching for the Ravens doesn't want to WIN.

    Concerning the play calling in the red zone being atrocious - If McNair hit Demetrius Williams for a td, instead of missing Heap for a pick on the exact same play, would that still be atrocious play calling?

    Agree 100%

    PP




  3. #33

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    It's moot at this point, since it's already been announced that he'll be back next season, but the call for Billick to be fired, as far as I'm concerned, is NOT just the result of Saturday's debacle -- that was merely the culmination of YEARS of having to put up with his stubborn arrogance, his misdirected overloyalty, his slow reaction to real time game situations, his abominable clock management, his inability to prepare the team for BIG GAMES, and, as has been stated already several times, his "play to not lose vs play to win" mentality. Now that Marty has shown his ability to abandon "Martyball", the new kid in town is now clearly BILLICKBALL. And unless one has an overwhelming desire to continually get f*cked up the ass, Billick should have been let go at the end of the season, IMO.

    But he wasn't, and I accept that, although I don't like it, and I will go on record as saying I don't like it now -- before next season even starts, so it won't be a matter of jumping on or off any bandwagons. I didn't join here until near the end of this season -- but I've been saying this about Billick now for years -- this isn't any kneejerk reaction to Saturday's loss to the Colts. I want a coach who is going to PLAY TO WIN, not PLAY NOT TO LOSE. If the mental giant Festivus is tired of hearing it, I could care less. I'm tired of hearing his and PP's apologetics for this woefully mismanaged team of ours.

    GO RAVENS!!!




  4. #34

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    I never said he should be fired for the debacle vs the Colts. I wish he had been fired after last year. If we had Bellichick, or Sean Payton as coach last week vs the Colts we win that game....no doubt in my mind.

    Billick played not to lose, instead of being aggressive and playing to win. We have seen this over and over w/ him since he has been here.

    FM




  5. #35

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Nice meltdown, Preston, I mean skay. Sure, it's definitely all Billick's fault. He obviously instructed McNair to turn the ball over.




  6. #36

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Skay, I don't claim to be a mental giant. I'm not so fancy as you and don't understand the difference between playing to win, and playing not to lose. Unless you mean playing to tie? I thought they don't have ties in the playoffs.

    Anyway if you want to point to some specific things, and explain what the difference is between playing to win, and playing not to lose, then maybe I'll understand better.

    Thanks in advance.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  7. #37

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Festivus..I'll give you a perfect example of what SKAY is trying to say. It was clear to me what Billick's mentality was at the end of the 1st half:

    When your team had been struggling to make a 1st down the entire 1st half and you have 2 TOs left and you have the ball, and you are trailing 9-3, a FG or TD can turn the momentum in your favor heading into the locker room.

    You at least TRY to get pts on the board, if you fail, no big deal. But wasting an entire possession is a JOKE. And Billick's logic was that Indy had TOs left as well and if we went down and scored Indy would get the ball back w/ another chance to score before halftime. Well, a real coach would have tried to score AND leave Indy little or no time left....THAT'S PLAYING TO WIN.

    What more do you need than that?

    FM




  8. #38

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by highwater View Post
    Nice meltdown, Preston, I mean skay. Sure, it's definitely all Billick's fault. He obviously instructed McNair to turn the ball over.
    Save your histrionic monolithic thinking/arguments for someone who cares. I never equated McNair's piss poor execution with Billick's piss poor play calling, although, now that you mention it, the fact that he was calling in PASSING plays in the 2nd half WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXPLOITING THE RUN D of Indy DOES, in fact, impact on the execution of the plays, because the plays being called in end up playing into the STRENGTHS, rather than the WEAKNESSES, of the opposing D. But that notwithstanding, McNair is entitled to have a bad day -- Billick's pattern of stupid game planning/play calling spans YEARS.

    And that doesn't even get into Billick's piss poor preparation for this game (where was an attempt to get SOMEBODY back there instead Cory Ross to run back kickoffs or punts and maybe give us a shot in the arm as far as better field position goes -- like Clayton, McAlister, etc.

    Or the insanity of running out the clock at the end of the first half -- something Billick has done REPEATEDLY -- rather than at least TRY to get some points on the board.

    Or the total lack of even ONE SINGLE NEW WRINLKE on offense -- pass by Clayton, flea flicker, etc.

    Or the season-long under-utilization of Mike Anderson.

    Etc. Etc. Etc.

    If you need to rationalize all the legitimate criticisms of Billick as a "meltdown", be my guest. His coaching problems -- MASKED by the quality of the players he has -- speak for themselves. Belichick, on the other hand, has demonstrated an uncanny ability to piece together sub-pro bowl caliber players and get them to win championships. Billick has YET to do that. He won in 2000/2001 because that D was so good, it took care of the defense AND the offense.

    He tried to rely on that this year, and he fell short. And I'm tired of it. And so are a lot of other fans. You want to stay in his corner, that's up to you. And if you need to write off those who are clear-headed enough to see what's really going on and speak out against it as "meltdowners", that's also your choice But I guarantee that as long as Billick is here as HC, the team is going to continue to be limited by his eccentric fears that get projected onto the whole offense, and ultimately the whole team.

    GO RAVENS!!!




  9. #39

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Skay, I don't claim to be a mental giant. I'm not so fancy as you and don't understand the difference between playing to win, and playing not to lose.
    Posters have been citing examples of Billick's "playing not to lose" vs "playing to win" repeatedly here in these posts. If you can't figure it out by yourself, then you can't figure it out.

    GO RAVENS!!!




  10. #40

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by skaybaltimore View Post
    Posters have been citing examples of Billick's "playing not to lose" vs "playing to win" repeatedly here in these posts. If you can't figure it out by yourself, then you can't figure it out.
    Lots of people say it. You just repeat it.

    Just because a parrot repeats something doesn't mean he understand what it means, if it means anything at all.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  11. #41
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    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    "Skay, I don't claim to be a mental giant. I'm not so fancy as you and don't understand the difference between playing to win, and playing not to lose."

    Try this: You're Indiana Jones. You can pick up all the ancient loose gold coins on the floor of the temple and go home with a nice find...or you can pull the lever that might give you access to the motherlode treasure of the Incas ten feet away - but that also may be booby-trapped to kill you instantly.
    ENFORCE THE 1ST AMENDMENT WITH THE SECOND, NEVER DISARM




  12. #42

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Well said SKAY...I agree w/ all of your pts. There are 2 factions of fans on the Billick topic...always has been.

    Keep in mind the playcalling when we got into the redzone. It was run, run, pass. Billick couldn't better than that? It was WAY too predictable. Calling the same pass play on 1st or 2nd down is just smarter and increases the chance for success.

    FM




  13. #43

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Art, Fan, Skay, if on the goal line pick, Steve McNair had instead hit Demetrius Williams in the corner of the end zone for a touchdown, would you guys all still be blaming the coach for a bad play called?
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  14. #44

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanman View Post
    Festivus..I'll give you a perfect example of what SKAY is trying to say. It was clear to me what Billick's mentality was at the end of the 1st half:

    When your team had been struggling to make a 1st down the entire 1st half and you have 2 TOs left and you have the ball, and you are trailing 9-3, a FG or TD can turn the momentum in your favor heading into the locker room.

    You at least TRY to get pts on the board, if you fail, no big deal. But wasting an entire possession is a JOKE. And Billick's logic was that Indy had TOs left as well and if we went down and scored Indy would get the ball back w/ another chance to score before halftime. Well, a real coach would have tried to score AND leave Indy little or no time left....THAT'S PLAYING TO WIN.

    What more do you need than that?

    FM
    Thanks, Fanman. I just didn't have the patience to explain it to Festivus. And that example is cut from the same cloth as that ridiculous Keystone Cops adventure when Billick decided against Cinci that it was "too risky" to just go ahead and kick the field goal that would have put us up by two scores -- something that would have made it statistically IMPOSSIBLE for us to lose, given the time left, assuming we made the field goal. Billick threw up a bunch of red herrings as to why he was playing the "odds", DESPITE THE REALITY THAT THE ODDS WERE SLIM TO NONE OF US HAVING THE FIELD GOAL BLOCKED AND RUN BACK FOR A TOUCHDOWN -- something that has NEVER HAPPENED while Billick has been the coach.

    By contrast, giving the ball back to Cinci with Palmer, Johnson, WhosYourMama, and Henry to try for a hail mary that COULD have tied the game WAS an actual possibility. So with Billick, not only do you get his with his warped, "play not to lose" mentality, you ALSO get hit with all of his rationalizations to try to explain his stupid philosophy. And I've had it with that chit. People who play not to lose actually END UP LOSING MORE than people who play to win, especially in post season, where the wheat has already been separated from the chaff. It's a FALSE security, and that's what people here are trying to expose.

    And those are just 2 examples; he incorporates his "play not to lose" in virtually every game. I THOUGHT that after firing Fassell, that would change. But what this season showed is that it really hasn't; it won't; it's too much a part of Billick's basic makeup. And Billick's insistence -- along with all the usual rationalizations -- to keep calling plays after "promoting" Rick to OC is another example of his eccentric, control freak mentality, which is intimately linked to his "play not to lose" mentality. (i.e. not to lose control is connected to his "play not to lose" game planning, IMO)

    GO RAVENS!!!




  15. #45

    Re: REASONS FOR THE LOSS (AKA, the Blame Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Art, Fan, Skay, if on the goal line pick, Steve McNair had instead hit Demetrius Williams in the corner of the end zone for a touchdown, would you guys all still be blaming the coach for a bad play called?
    Again, you're pulling your same old Bait And Switch crap. NO ONE is saying that, but you keep on trying to ram YOUR argument home, without beginning to LISTEN to what anyone else is saying to you. That's why I chose NOT to give you examples of things already given, because with you, it's not a matter of people saying things to you that are beyond your comprehension, it's a matter of you choosing not to listen to what people have already said.

    GO RAVENS!!!




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