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Thread: First topic for debate
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08-20-2006, 11:42 AM #25
Re: First topic for debate
True, fairness derives from the respect of of individual rights, but from my point of view, again of European tradition, government is there to ensure that people do respect these rights. From my point of view people, rather than government strive for power. A power hungry government is an expression of power hungry individuals.
Hrafn
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08-20-2006, 05:50 PM #26Rookie Poster
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Re: First topic for debate
Originally Posted by Hrafn
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08-20-2006, 05:52 PM #27
Re: First topic for debate
I look forward to the day where gun control will be a moot point...
I believe that for every lady that escapes rape because she has a gun, there's a 6-year-old who finds daddy's .38 and harms someone with it. I believe one should be allowed to own a firearm, so long as it's guaranteed he can only use it in extreme cases or in controlled environments for recreation
Guns per se aren't the cause of criminality, it's a question of mentality and education, so it's hard to argue against the freedom of owning a gun, provided no harm can come to others
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08-20-2006, 08:57 PM #28Rookie Poster
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Re: First topic for debate
There are people who are irresponsible and own guns. It would seem that there are many 6 year-olds that find daddy's .38 and tragedy follows. Thank you, Big Media. It's Big News when a tragedy like that happens, but ho-hum when someone prevents a crime by showing heat. Big Media is not interested in such stories.
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08-20-2006, 11:29 PM #29
Re: First topic for debate
The court (that great protector of American liberty) often abbrogates its responsibilities by rubber stamping these new powers, ...
I believe that for every lady that escapes rape because she has a gun, there's a 6-year-old who finds daddy's .38 and harms someone with it.
You are going off what you think and feel, here are numbers from a study from the University of FL. http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/noframedex.html
Millions of self-defense uses since 1/1/2005.
http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm
There are your numbers for accidents and murder. What people think and feel is immaterial when the facts scream otherwise. The problem is the liberal media doesn't tell us these numbers, they just play up the horrors of the relatively few incidents of like Columbine.
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08-21-2006, 05:21 AM #30
Re: First topic for debate
I think I have come away from this thread more knowledgable than I was before. In Europe, there is little or no understandning of the 2nd amendment. It is easy for lobbysists to claim what I tried to claim in the beginning of this thread, that guns breed violence and crime.
The reports on the effects of carry laws is the first really solid evidence for positives of the right to own a gun. This far outweighs any argument or evidence the gun control lobbyists have.
This doesn't mean that I'm now an advocate of rights to own a gun over here. The negatives associated with being armed is very deeply rooted in me, and it will probably take a while for me to fully accept the contrary position.Hrafn
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08-21-2006, 11:55 AM #31
Re: First topic for debate
I'm not really I can believe that there were 7 million+ crime attempts thwarted by guns in the US last year alone, but I can believe that the number can far exceed the number of accidents. I don't exactly have access to much except for the "liberal media"
Still, according to the site there's a little less than an accident involving persons under 14 per day, and that figure is way too high if you ask me. There should be a greater effort in the education of citizens regarding guns, IMHO
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08-21-2006, 04:26 PM #32
Re: First topic for debate
Wow... what a contrast to the other Politics forum. Things have remained civil, people have held their ground without being nasty, and a few people even seemed to be enlightened.
One thing I would mention, Hrafn, is that while the murder rate is typically lower in countries with strict gun control (Britain and Australia come to mind), the rate of "hot" crimes is higher. By "hot" crimes I mean crimes like burglary and carjacking where the owner of the property is present and put in jeopardy. The studies I have seen tend to indicate that criminals are bolder about their targets when there is little to no chance of the victim holding a superior weapon... which, I hope you agree, makes sense. I wish I still had links to the studies I'm referencing, but it's been a few years since I studied this topic. In any case, it's not a huge leap of faith to make, given the reasoning.
Another reason that violent crime is so high in the United States is the drug trade, which has already been mentioned. Personally, I'm convinced that legalizing most of the "common" illegal drugs is what our society needs to flush out that violent element. Take away the profit of the gangs and the cartels, and they will cease to flourish. But that's just me, and whoever I can convince in this lifetime.
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08-21-2006, 05:32 PM #33
Re: First topic for debate
Originally Posted by Gabrosin
Originally Posted by Gabrosin, part 2
How Tobacco and Alcohol are legal yet Marijuana is not is beyond me. It is a travesty. I suppose the only remaining legitimate roadblock is the lack of an roadside test for influence level, but then again, that shouldn't be particularly worrisome.
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08-21-2006, 05:56 PM #34
Re: First topic for debate
How Tobacco and Alcohol are legal yet Marijuana is not is beyond me. It is a travesty. I suppose the only remaining legitimate roadblock is the lack of an roadside test for influence level, but then again, that shouldn't be particularly worrisome.
It certainly isn't because they are less harmful than marijuana.Hrafn
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08-21-2006, 06:00 PM #35
Re: First topic for debate
Wow... what a contrast to the other Politics forum. Things have remained civil, people have held their ground without being nasty, and a few people even seemed to be enlightened.Hrafn
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08-21-2006, 06:09 PM #36
Re: First topic for debate
I apologize, I actually got the most heated or appear to have in this thread.
Still, according to the site there's a little less than an accident involving persons under 14 per day, and that figure is way too high if you ask me.
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