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Thread: Nestor/NST reaches new low
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09-03-2006, 11:23 AM #73
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
Because I'm NOT an adult? Give me a break. Have you ever thought that I might believe certain things because I have actually thought about them? Or maybe just because I don't agree with you I'm acting like a child. You're telling me I want to be treated like an adult...in this case, yes, I do, I want to have a discussion based on opinions and arguments, not on accusations. But hey, perhaps you're never actually wrong, right?
And how the hell do you know how that girl's mind works? You're doing an incredible amount of mind-reading here, huh? What if SHE manipulated the old man because she was desperate for a quick 20? What if she *gasp* didn't have a problem with what she did after think about it? You say that it's morally reprehensible to manipulate a young person, well guess what, it's also morally reprehensible to judge people like that
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09-03-2006, 12:33 PM #74
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
What if SHE manipulated the old man because she was desperate for a quick 20?
You're saying he accepted oral sex from this high school student out of the goodness of his heart because she needed a quick $20? :grbac: That's prostitution, BTW...in which case he is guilty of committing a crime whether the girl was 16, 18, 21, or 35.
You say that it's morally reprehensible to manipulate a young person, well guess what, it's also morally reprehensible to judge people like that
You've said in the past that some 15 and 16 year-olds are mature for their age and perfectly capable of making the "mature" decision to blow a 60 year-old in a car. Leaving aside the sheerly ludicrious nature of your argument, who gets to make that determination? The teen herself? She will say she's mature enough every time. The courts? Isn't that kind of decision a little too subjective for a judge to make? The parents? What's to stop Dad from putting his little girl on the streets to earn a buck?
Like it or not, the line has to be drawn somewhere. A vast majority of Americans believe that adults having sex with adolescents is morally reprehensible...especially since an adolescent is not intellectually, emotionally, or economically equipped to successfully provide for themselves or anyone else in today's economy. That being the case (and since this is a democracy), legislators pass statuatory rape laws.
Frankly, you don't live here anyway...so I don't see why you give a damn. If people in Brazil think it's OK to use children for sexual gratification, it's your damn country and you have to live in it.THE 2nd WAVE LOYAL™
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09-03-2006, 01:23 PM #75Regular 1st Stringer
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Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
Frankly, you don't live here anyway...so I don't see why you give a damn. If people in Brazil think it's OK to use children for sexual gratification, it's your damn country and you have to live in it.
People in Brazil DO think its okay.
Further details.
It’s also noteworthy that the “age of consent” here applies not only to sexual intercourse (penis in the vagina), but also to all forms of “libidinous acts” (which includes oral and anal sex, manipulation and/or mouth contact with the breasts and the vagina, and the masturbation of the other). One can be prosecuted by the parents of a minor in case of doing any of these libidinous acts with the minor (and not only in case of sexual intercourse).
Dating and kissing are allowed at all ages and are not subject to law enforcement (sex is not presumed from dating).
To sum up everything :
- Age of consent in Brazil is NORMALLY 14
(WITH parents’ approval – or at least their tolerance);
- However if there’s PREGNANCY with SUBSEQUENT MARRIAGE (or vice-versa), then :
A) Age of consent becomes 14 in any case (WITH or WITHOUT parents’ approval, because the partner can't be prosecuted anymore once the marriage is now valid);
OR
B) If below 14, age of consent becomes age of puberty/fertility (WITH parents’ approval).
In other words, while everyone consents (including the parents) and the girl is pregnant (or was pregnant, being now a mother), the age of consent in this very particular case (marriage with pregnancy) is reduced to the age of puberty (or if you prefer to the age of pregnancy or the age of fertility).
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09-03-2006, 04:44 PM #76
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
I don't know about the rest of you, but I've never needed to be "manipulated" into accepting a blowjob from an *adult* female.
You're saying he accepted oral sex from this high school student out of the goodness of his heart because she needed a quick $20? That's prostitution, BTW...in which case he is guilty of committing a crime whether the girl was 16, 18, 21, or 35.
She isn't even a legal adult. That's because legislators decided that people under the age of 18 don't have the life experience to make responsible choices...that's why their parents are still legally responsible for them...and that's also why it's not "morally reprehensible" to make these judgements.
You've said in the past that some 15 and 16 year-olds are mature for their age and perfectly capable of making the "mature" decision to blow a 60 year-old in a car. Leaving aside the sheerly ludicrious nature of your argument, who gets to make that determination? The teen herself? She will say she's mature enough every time. The courts? Isn't that kind of decision a little too subjective for a judge to make? The parents? What's to stop Dad from putting his little girl on the streets to earn a buck?
Obviously you can't change age of consent laws overnight and expect everything to be fine, I don't. However, given the appropriate education, anyone should be able to make the correct decisions, regardless of their age. People are taught to count and make calculations by a math teacher, someone who has experience in that given area. Why doesn't the same happen with sex? If parents and educators actually bothered to teach children and teenagers about sex and tell them their experiences with sex, don't you think they would be better able to make decisions in that regard? This isn't an age issue, it's an issue of education. I for one would trust a 15-year-old whose parents tought them about sex and talked about their experiences over a 20-year-old whose parents denied access to any information regarding sex
Like it or not, the line has to be drawn somewhere. A vast majority of Americans believe that adults having sex with adolescents is morally reprehensible...especially since an adolescent is not intellectually, emotionally, or economically equipped to successfully provide for themselves or anyone else in today's economy. That being the case (and since this is a democracy), legislators pass statuatory rape laws.
No one will be equipped to do anything unless they are TAUGHT how to do it. I would have never known what a spoon is for unless my mother had taught me how and when to use it
I've read a lot of papers and have taken courses on Psychology of Education and similar subjects, but I guess I can't know as much as you because you're simply older than me, right?
This is NOT a question of age, it's a question of EDUCATION
People in Brazil DO think its okay.
Also, consider that teen pregnancy rates in the US were at 84 pregnancies per 1,000 females aged 15-19 (after falling significantly from 1990), while in Holland, one of the most sexually liberal countries in the world, the teen pregnancy rates were at FOUR pregnancies per 1,000 females (15-19). How do you interpret that?
Frankly, you don't live here anyway...so I don't see why you give a damn. If people in Brazil think it's OK to use children for sexual gratification, it's your damn country and you have to live in it.
Why do I give a damn? Because I like to make people think about issues that aren't commonly given a lot of thought to. You don't believe people got where they are right now by unquestioningly accepting what was told to them, right? Whether I am right or not is mostly irrelevant, my goal is to make people think about things, to make them see the two sides of any given subject. This is how the human race has advanced, afterall. The conclusions anyone reaches is none of my business, but I like to hear the arguments they have in favour of one or another side, and I like to present arguments from the other side. Is having a discussion about something really that bad? For that matter, if you consider the fact that I'm not American relevant to the discussion, why are you talking to me?
Besides, it's really fun to play the devil's advocate (:
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09-03-2006, 05:49 PM #77
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
My point was that we don't know exactly what happened, so we might be reaching premature conclusions
That is unacceptable, and no amount of ridiculous conjecture on your part to justify it will make it any less so.
How can they have life experience if we don't allow them to have it? American society, and perhaps Western society as a whole, denies young people the possibility of learning about sex and other things of life, and expects them to magically be able to learn them at age 18. It would be the same thing is adults constantly denied teenagers access to information about cars and expected them to be able to handle them perfectly well at 18
And since when are adolescents expected to provide for themselves or others? Just because a couple is having sex they have to life together now?
I've read a lot of papers and have taken courses on Psychology of Education and similar subjects, but I guess I can't know as much as you because you're simply older than me, right?
Excuse me while I genuflect in awe!!!
You're not the only one with a university education...and since you mention it, I do have more life experience than you...thanks for pointing it out.
Also, consider that teen pregnancy rates in the US were at 84 pregnancies per 1,000 females aged 15-19 (after falling significantly from 1990), while in Holland, one of the most sexually liberal countries in the world, the teen pregnancy rates were at FOUR pregnancies per 1,000 females (15-19). How do you interpret that?
How is that relevant? Just because I don't live in Spain, I can't give my opinion about Real Madrid? Either way, you'll find that I'm most certainly not representative of the brazilian population
Why are you so concerned about the right of an adult to fuck an adolescent without retribution from the law or anyone else?
my goal is to make people think about things, to make them see the two sides of any given subject.
Who annointed you to make us think? What makes you think you're qualified? Everyone in this thread has obviously thought about this before, otherwise they wouldn't have posted. Oh, I know...every person in the world thinks they're uniquely qualified to criticize American values, but based on what RM posted about Brazilian law, I'd say you're wrong.Last edited by RavenMad2099; 09-03-2006 at 06:04 PM.
THE 2nd WAVE LOYAL™
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The contents of this post may not be reproduced in whole or in part without the express written consent
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09-03-2006, 08:49 PM #78
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
Give me a break...a 16 year-old is only a few years removed from playing with Barbie dolls, and you think the only reason she isn't ready for adult decisions is because people won't let her have any responsibility? You can't be serious. She may not magically transform at the age of 18, but at least she'll have a full education and more real life experience.
Perhaps you could read my post without automatic bias and dismissal of arguments? I'm here trying to say why I believe what I believe, but you just come and say I'm obviously wrong
No, but sex carries responsibility...among them is the possible result of getting pregnant. In your world, I suppose Mommy and Daddy should pay for the delivery and upbringing of the child resulting from the 60 year-old perv bonking their daughter without their permission.
You're not the only one with a university education...and since you mention it, I do have more life experience than you...thanks for pointing it out.
Are you trying to make the case that allowing adults to practice pedophilia and commit statuatory rape reduces teen pregnancy? If not, I fail to see what any of that has to do with what you and I are talking about.
Well, you're criticizing American values...and you don't even live here.
Why are you so concerned about the right of an adult to fuck an adolescent without retribution from the law or anyone else?
That's certainly arrogant.
Who annointed you to make us think? What makes you think you're qualified? Everyone in this thread has obviously thought about this before, otherwise they wouldn't have posted. Oh, I know...every person in the world thinks they're uniquely qualified to criticize American values, but based on what RM posted about Brazilian law, I'd say you're wrong.
I don't think I'm doing you a favour, I'm just trying to have a civilized conversation. That seems to be impossible, however, given that anything I say is taken a personal attack on Americans or American values
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09-03-2006, 09:56 PM #79
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
A full education? Are you kidding? Teaching her about math and geography will translate to more responsibility? And how in the world will she have more life experience in what relates to the things she is FORBIDDEN to do?
Perhaps you could read my post without automatic bias and dismissal of arguments? I'm here trying to say why I believe what I believe, but you just come and say I'm obviously wrong
Perhaps you've heard of a little something called contraception?
Maybe you should look up how many pregnancies are unplanned. We have an organization here in the US called Planned Parenthood...it's name is actually misleading. It primarily helps people with unplanned pregnancies.
Either way, anyone who puts themselves in a postition to get pregnant, planned or not, has a moral obligatigation to have the means to deal with a possible pregnancy. Teens don't, and most of them aren't even "mature" enough to consider that fact before spreading their legs or putting their dicks into someone.
Which would you rather have, a kid who's been told what sex is and what it involves and what they should do to be as safe as possible, or a kid who's completely ignorant about sex but undeniably horny?
Your reasoning there baffles me. What I was saying is that Holland is more sexually liberal, ergo, young people have more access to information and more freedom to do as they want, and that translates into far less teenage pregnancies than in America, and your line of thinking leads me to believe you think that teens having sex and pregnancy are correlated.
Perhaps, for the sake of argument, you should stop assuming that anything I say will be in defence of pedophilia/rape/whatever
I'm not criticizing American values, I'm arguing against some, because last I read, Americans are still human beings. I'm not about the right for x to fuck y without retribution from whoever, I'm for freedom and for information. This seems to be particularly hard, however, because anything that doesn't agree with American values is apparently automatically dismissed
I don't think I'm doing you a favour, I'm just trying to have a civilized conversation. That seems to be impossible, however, given that anything I say is taken a personal attack on Americans or American valuesLast edited by RavenMad2099; 09-03-2006 at 10:34 PM.
THE 2nd WAVE LOYAL™
© 2007 DRayRaven Enterprises™. All rights reserved, patent pending.
The contents of this post may not be reproduced in whole or in part without the express written consent
of DRayRaven, ProFootball 24x7, the Baltimore Ravens, the National Football League, or related entities.
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09-04-2006, 01:45 PM #80
Re: Nestor/NST reaches new low
Originally Posted by Greg
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