Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tenuous
    Posts
    4,920

    Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative



    Bill Ayers has finally broken his silence with the public and released an Op-Ed in the NY Times. I have spoken out about the reckless associations to Obama created and greatly exaggerated by the conservative media. This election cycle the liberal media was finally able to push back against the conservative media unlike in '04.

    I have asked conservative friends, McCain supporters while I was knocking on doors and people on the various forums I post to explain to me something about an association that should concern me and no one was ever able to make a substantial case other than Obama knew this guy or that guy and spoke to him etc.

    So here are some outtakes form the Ayers OpEd:

    "In the recently concluded presidential race, I was unwillingly thrust upon the stage and asked to play a role in a profoundly dishonest drama."

    "Unable to challenge the content of Barack Obama’s campaign, his opponents invented a narrative about a young politician"

    "Secondary characters in the narrative included an African-American preacher with a fiery style, a Palestinian scholar and an “unrepentant domestic terrorist"

    "I never killed or injured anyone."

    "The Weather Underground crossed lines of legality, of propriety and perhaps even of common sense."

    "for the past 40 years, I’ve been teaching and writing about the unique value and potential of every human life, and the need to realize that potential through education."

    "The responsibility for the risks we posed to others in some of our most extreme actions in those underground years never leaves my thoughts for long. "

    "President-elect Obama and I sat on a board together; we lived in the same diverse and yet close-knit community; we sometimes passed in the bookstore. We didn’t pal around, and I had nothing to do with his positions. I knew him as well as thousands of others did, and like millions of others, I wish I knew him better. "

    "Demonization, guilt by association, and the politics of fear did not triumph, not this time."

    "talking and listening to the widest range of people is not a sin, but a virtue."


    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/op...Mu7xDTPW1Ljl6Q








  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    23,353

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Consider the sources. Plural.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    23,353

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I have asked conservative friends, McCain supporters while I was knocking on doors and people on the various forums I post to explain to me something about an association that should concern me and no one was ever able to make a substantial case other than Obama knew this guy or that guy and spoke to him etc
    Of course it did not meet YOUR standards. but for 58+ Million, it met their level of what a common sense President should be.

    So here are some outtakes form the Ayers OpEd:

    "Secondary characters in the narrative included an African-American preacher with a fiery style, a Palestinian scholar and an “unrepentant domestic terrorist"

    He has a woderful grasp of propaganda, I will give him that.

    To call Rev. Wright a "fiery style preacher" would be like me calling David Duke a charismatic politician. And that "Palestinian scholar" is the former talking mouth for the PLO, Rashid Khalidi. This "scholar" has pimped ideas such as destroying Israel. Very scholarly indeed.

    "I never killed or injured anyone."

    Oh really? Ok, well maybe he never actually pulled the trigger. Hell, Manson was able to kill a lot of folks and not even be in the room. It's called "accessory" and in all 50 states of this country, that's just as bad as actually being the killer. Some folks who have died at the hand of the "innocent victim" Bill Ayres were Ted Gold, Diana Oughton, Terry Robbins -- all members of his organization.

    "for the past 40 years, I’ve been teaching and writing about the unique value and potential of every human life, and the need to realize that potential through education."

    That's pretty funny too. Here is a guy who, to this day, still exposes the virtues of communism and is now putting policy together that teaches young children in Illinois.

    "President-elect Obama and I sat on a board together; we lived in the same diverse and yet close-knit community; we sometimes passed in the bookstore. We didn’t pal around, and I had nothing to do with his positions. I knew him as well as thousands of others did, and like millions of others, I wish I knew him better. "

    Nobody has ever made a claim that Obama and Ayres were buddies. This is classic double-speak. Even the most conservative of talk radio guys admit as much. What was claimed, and proved, is that these two DID discuss POLICY, which is far more problematic then if they were two dudes getting together for some beers after a softball game.

    "Demonization, guilt by association, and the politics of fear did not triumph, not this time."

    Sure it did triumph. Ask Palin.

    "talking and listening to the widest range of people is not a sin, but a virtue."

    Very curious statement indeed. He claims that he had little to no communication with Obama (even hoping to know him better) then justifies the actions of which he is accused.

    If Ayres was such the innocent victim here, why even say this? In my line of work, this is what we call rationalization. He knows he is lying (or, at least minimizing his actions) and now must justify what he is doing. Innocent people say "I did not do it". Period. End of Discussion. They dont offer qualifiers. They dont offer reasons for why they could not have possible done what they did. And not only is he rationalizing, he is then boosting his own ego by calling it a virtue.
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 12-07-2008 at 11:17 AM.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tenuous
    Posts
    4,920

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Of course it did not meet YOUR standards. but for 58+ Million, it met their level of what a common sense President should be.
    58 million was the losing number...67 million would be the winning number. You seem to have problems with that point.

    I hate to point this out to you HR but you still go on record saying that Ayers killed people in the bombings on the Capital and Pentagon. You lose some credibility with statements like that and come across as lacking a factual understanding of what really happened away from the Fox Noise accounts.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    So here are some outtakes form the Ayers OpEd:

    "Secondary characters in the narrative included an African-American preacher with a fiery style, a Palestinian scholar and an “unrepentant domestic terrorist"

    He has a woderful grasp of propaganda, I will give him that.

    To call Rev. Wright a "fiery style preacher" would be like me calling David Duke a charismatic politician. And that "Palestinian scholar" is the former talking mouth for the PLO, Rashid Khalidi. This "scholar" has pimped ideas such as destroying Israel. Very scholarly indeed.
    David Duke was an out and out racist that was openly involved with the Klan. Wright said "god damn america" because the promise of civil rights had not been realized. While an inflamatory comment, neither you or I understand what it is to experience that type of racism. Again republican self-righteous patriotism tells you have to speak out against anyone that speaks out against your country. That is fine and I understand that but its your type of fundamentalist thought that prevents change where change is needed. I don't have a problem with people speaking out against unjustices.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    "I never killed or injured anyone."

    Oh really? Ok, well maybe he never actually pulled the trigger. Hell, Manson was able to kill a lot of folks and not even be in the room. It's called "accessory" and in all 50 states of this country, that's just as bad as actually being the killer. Some folks who have died at the hand of the "innocent victim" Bill Ayres were Ted Gold, Diana Oughton, Terry Robbins -- all members of his organization.
    Again while most of your points you make have merit, this point that you continue to try to get across just shows your unwillingness to read about the incidents and know what really happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    "for the past 40 years, I’ve been teaching and writing about the unique value and potential of every human life, and the need to realize that potential through education."

    That's pretty funny too. Here is a guy who, to this day, still exposes the virtues of communism and is now putting policy together that teaches young children in Illinois.
    First of all if you think Ayers is teaching principles of communism to public school children you are maybe further "out there" than I thought. Secondly, I am not a communist but don't feel threatened by someone who might be although I am sure Ayers would not make that claim. Of course if you listen long enough to right wing retoric I see how one could be led to believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    "President-elect Obama and I sat on a board together; we lived in the same diverse and yet close-knit community; we sometimes passed in the bookstore. We didn’t pal around, and I had nothing to do with his positions. I knew him as well as thousands of others did, and like millions of others, I wish I knew him better. "

    Nobody has ever made a claim that Obama and Ayres were buddies. This is classic double-speak. Even the most conservative of talk radio guys admit as much. What was claimed, and proved, is that these two DID discuss POLICY, which is far more problematic then if they were two dudes getting together for some beers after a softball game.
    Wrong...you don't remember Palin saying over and over again that "Obama
    pals around with terrorists? That kinda sounds like buddies to me.

    Have you read about policy they spoke about which was intended to bridge the gap between whites and minorities in education??? That was what Ayers is and has been working on and gaining a lot of notoriety for. That is the policy they worked on together. You probably think that sound like a communism though, Huh? Don't give those little minorities a chance, right? By the way, that is at the heart of NCLB which is a republican - Bush initiative.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    "Demonization, guilt by association, and the politics of fear did not triumph, not this time."

    Sure it did triumph. Ask Palin.
    You are more than likely right here. The issue though is that republicans were afraid of the big black bogeyman becoming president while democrats were afraid of a women with a community college education being one heart away from the presidency. That ultimately will be a good thing for you and me.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    "talking and listening to the widest range of people is not a sin, but a virtue."

    Very curious statement indeed. He claims that he had little to no communication with Obama (even hoping to know him better) then justifies the actions of which he is accused.

    If Ayres was such the innocent victim here, why even say this? In my line of work, this is what we call rationalization. He knows he is lying (or, at least minimizing his actions) and now must justify what he is doing. Innocent people say "I did not do it". Period. End of Discussion. They dont offer qualifiers. They dont offer reasons for why they could not have possible done what they did. And not only is he rationalizing, he is then boosting his own ego by calling it a virtue.
    Its called nuance HR....something that conservatives have a hard time with. Ayers said he had a minimal relationship with Obama which is well known. He then says that is it okay to talk to people with different opinions which is what Obama is all about. There is no rationalizing...Ayers is actually referring to Obama's ability to talk to people of different opinions and integrate...that is a skill. He calls Obama virtuous not himself...you are reading his comment wrong.

    Really it is okay to listen to opposition...no one will stop calling you a Patriot! and if they do, you should call them an idiot








  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    23,353

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Not gonna re-quote ....

    1. I've read up on all the incidents Ayers was involved. I take HIM at his word when he says he was indeed involved in making bombs that killed 4 of his fellow terrorists. Again, there is this little "nuance" in the law called being an accessory. Ayers, much like OJ, was able to beat the charge. But unlike OJ, admitted his wrong doing during numerous interviews.

    2. Forgive me if I think that a self-confessed communist would be problematic in a public school classroom. You're right. Human bias never seeps out. I mean, just look at the media! What was I thinking?!?!?

    3. Could care less if Palin chooses to label Obama as being a pall to Ayers. I will rely on the facts surrouding him and Obama. And those facts tell me there is much more to the Ayers / Obama relationship then what they both admit. So me, not Palin, has decided to he does associate with a domestic terrorist.

    4. Rev Wright, Bill Ayers, Kalidi, Tony Rezco, Gov. Blagojevich ... either Obama was associated with all of these dudes or he is the most oblivious person in the world. Both make him a laugher as a person and a questionable politician to say the least.

    5. Nothing nuanced about a qualified denial. Again, in my line of work that's someone hiding a lie. Spin it anyway you want, nuanced or otherwise, but Ayers is spinning faster then a 3rd grader on a playground merry-go-round..
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Kingsville, MD
    Posts
    684

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Wait a minute - G7 and Houston are both shrinks?

    Cool.

    BS




  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tenuous
    Posts
    4,920

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSunday View Post
    Wait a minute - G7 and Houston are both shrinks?

    Cool.

    BS
    Actuallly what you are seeing is how therapy plays out in my office with someone seriously in denial and holding onto false constructs that maintain a particular worldview.

    Follow HR's path of reason through this debate. First he made the case that Ayers killed people in the bombings at the Pentagon and the Capitol building. When that notion was challenged, he had to hold the notion that Ayers was in fact still a killer so HR dropped the claims about the pentagon and capitol and came out with Ayers killing people in his own group...that yes, that proves he is a killer. The construct remains solid in his mind.

    The truth is Ayers didn't kill anyone there either but because people did die then the construct that Ayers is still a killer can remain. This is nonsense though as Ayers has been a free man and never charged with any crime. But HR knows better and this is the narcissistic side of HR that is saying, "I don't care what the law has shown over the pat 40 years nor do I care what every journalist outside of Fox Noise has reported, I say he is a killer so he is!".

    For good measure, he will throw in some of his usual claims about liberal media stuff, unreliable sources and maybe a couple fallacious arguments such as since OJ is a free man than that proves his point that Ayers was also a murderer because he too is a free man.

    There would not be a chance in the world to prove otherwise because without the construct that Ayers is a killer than there is no construct that Obama pals around with terrorists and then the whole construct that Obama is scary guy falls apart.

    So the therapist wouldn't challenge the constructs anymore but instead try to figure out why the constructs are so important. One would try to discern why it is so important for HR to prove the the inadequacy of Obama.

    I don't have an answer for that but sometimes strong reactions like that are from being picked last for the kickball team in elementary school, constantly being the first to get knocked out playing dodgeball or having the experience of whenever you walk towards a group of girls in high school, they suddenly become quiet. That's a joke but HR is obviously a smart guy and would be a tough nut to crack thats for sure. I am sure many on this board would attest to that. I give him credit for his resiliency albeit often misguided.








  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX Y'all
    Posts
    23,353

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Psych 101 .... a diagnosis without ever seeing the person is quite the ethical no-no. Shame on you, G7!

    Very familiar too. I seem to recall this laughable study out of U of MD that got debunked about conservatives being this, that and the other. It was quite laugh. I might have to dig it up and take a look.

    And no, I am not a shrink. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express. Seriously though, the DSM-iv is not some mystical book, only to be understood by those who paid an un-Godly sum to the ivory tower of a liberal arts college.

    1. Ayers WAS charged and beat the charge. Get your facts straight.

    2. I get my opinions about Ayers from Ayers himself. When Ayers says publicly and quoted in print as saying he helped with the bombings, that 4 of his friends died because of the bombs going off early and that he feels he did not do enough I will take him at his word. You assume I get some talking points from Fox et all yet I rarely watch TV at all least it be ESPN. I am a reader. What is that ole saying about assuming, G7?

    3. Not trying to "prove" anything about Obama. The facts are already laid out should you choose to see them in the proper context. You have chosen to minimize his associations, which is certainly your right. Others have chosen to look at the entire package of a man and do not like his cronies. You can tell the measure of a man by the company he keeps.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tenuous
    Posts
    4,920

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Psych 101 .... a diagnosis without ever seeing the person is quite the ethical no-no. Shame on you, G7!
    actually that is not completely correct these days as many psychs are doing work via the internet.

    I would like to read the study out of U MD if you find it.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    And no, I am not a shrink. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express. Seriously though, the DSM-iv is not some mystical book, only to be understood by those who paid an un-Godly sum to the ivory tower of a liberal arts college.
    you forgot to mention Elitist. Your statement would sound better if you worded it like this, "Seriously though, the DSM-iv(TR) is not some mystical book, only to be understood by those (change "those" to "some elitist") who paid an un-Godly sum to the ivory tower of a liberal arts college"

    so after editing it would be:

    "Seriously though, the DSM-iv-TR is not some mystical book, only to be understood by some elitist who paid an un-Godly sum to the ivory tower of a liberal arts college"

    Now you would sound like a true blooded conservative. You need more powerful wording when confronting graduate education. You need to be sure that being educated and intelligent is a negative thing...words like ivory tower, liberal arts and elitist serve those purposes well.

    Education is the anidote to conservative/fundamental thought. I understand how it scares you and will try to be sympathetic to you around that point.



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The facts are already laid out should you choose to see them in the proper context. You have chosen to minimize his associations, which is certainly your right. Others have chosen to look at the entire package of a man and do not like his cronies. You can tell the measure of a man by the company he keeps.
    You will need to convince the 79% of americans as well as the 87% of the international world that are not quite taking the radical right's take on this matter. Keep pushing it though....like I said I like your resiliency .

    Just remember (and try to integrate) that for Obama's Ayers there is McCain's Liddy, for Obama's rezko, there is McCain's Keating and for Obama's Wright there is McCain's Hagee.

    Do you wonder why the Dems never brought those "scary associations" up? Do you wonder why the Republicans brought up every association Obama ever had? Interesting point for discussion I am sure.

    I would bet the answer lies somewhere in understanding the notion that every political leader that has reached the zenith of a presidential nomination is going to have some shady associations. I am fortunate to have taken enough critical analysis classes of logic as well as research methods to have the benefit of being able to see through the ridiculous claims. Others have overactive amygdalas and respond according to how the party wants them to respond.

    Do you have bad nightmares HR?








  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tenuous
    Posts
    4,920

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    recent interview with Chris Matthews:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceh6i...layer_embedded








  11. #11

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    The irony of the Bill Ayers story is the same cubical commandos that cultivate the notion that he's an unrepentant terrorist give Bush a free pass for the thousands of soldiers he murdered in vengeance for daddy/oilquest/Halliburton profitfest or whatever you'd like to label it.

    Iraq is and was anything but a war on terror.




  12. #12

    Re: Bill Ayers - The invention of a narrative

    Holly Hell ... this shit is even better then the Ravens Side ... I can not believe I have been missing out on this !!

    So When Obama said ... "My Muslim Faith" on national TV I guess that was just a slip up due to being on camera? Yeah sure .. That would be just like a Orthodox Jew saying "My Catholic Faith" and then saying oh sorry yeah "My Jewish Faith"

    People and I mean everyone .. wake up ... I am a member of the GOP , however all of them Lie !! DEMS, GOP, GREEN ... they all LIE ... It is a dayummm JOB Interview that gives POWER !!! They all Lie and they all cheat.

    I vote for whom allows me to keep my money working for me and my family! Simple !!


    "It is not how you play the game that matters... It is Winning The Super Bowl that counts"... Rumor Ray

    Baltimore Has 10 Pro Football Championships!
    Baltimore Colts [NFL] in 1958, 1959, 1968, and 1970
    Baltimore Stars [USFL] in 1985
    Baltimore Stallions [CFL] in 1995
    Baltimore Ravens [NFL] in 2000 and 2012
    Baltimore Mariners [AIFA] in 2010
    Baltimore Mariners [AIF] in 2014




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland