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  1. #1
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    Logical, unheated QB discussion



    Let's all take a breath and relax a tad.

    First, McNair is the starter and should be, he is proven and I think will eventually be fine. His first 2 games were good, the offense just couldn't finish the drives in game 2. I think that is fixable. Last night McNair made a few mistakes, that INT was a very bad (maybe even bonehead) decision.

    Boller has looked good the last 2 games, and I don't care about the competition, he has remained composed in the pocket and thrown the ball where his WRs can make plays and the defense can't. In a positive, in the Giants came even though he missed a few throws (especially the TDs he missed) he still found the open guy.

    The problem some people, myself included, are having with this debate is that the standards applied to Boller don't apply to McNair. McNair had crappy protection, does that excuse his play? Because it didn't excuse Boller's much of the time.

    The fact is when given time to throw both of our QBs look good, the real key is can we pick up the blitzes and can the QB and receivers make the hot reads and perform. We won't stop seeing these blitzes until we do.

    Now, no name calling and no getting pissed off.

    Edit to add: Nobody is happy over McNair's tough night, I think anybody pointing his play out is noting that the criticism directed toward Boller was unfairly harsh because we can now see a guy we KNOW is good struggling.
    Last edited by Greg; 08-26-2006 at 10:51 AM.




  2. #2

    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Last night McNair made a few mistakes, that INT was a very bad (maybe even bonehead) decision.
    I think if you watch the replay you will see that the INT was Clayton's fault, not Macs. Clayton was open when the ball was released, but for some reason he decided to start drifting towards the sideline. He was out of position when the ball arrived and worse he opened up the door for the CB to cut him off on the inside.

    Boller has looked good the last 2 games, and I don't care about the competition, he has remained composed in the pocket and thrown the ball where his WRs can make plays and the defense can't. In a positive, in the Giants came even though he missed a few throws (especially the TDs he missed) he still found the open guy.
    Agreed. With the exception of game 1, Boller has looked very good.


    The problem some people, myself included, are having with this debate is that the standards applied to Boller don't apply to McNair. McNair had crappy protection, does that excuse his play? Because it didn't excuse Boller's much of the time.

    The fact is when given time to throw both of our QBs look good, the real key is can we pick up the blitzes and can the QB and receivers make the hot reads and perform. We won't stop seeing these blitzes until we do.
    I try to not hold either QB to a different standard, comparisons are difficult given that Boller is not playing with the first team O or against the first team D.

    I believe that regardless of who is QB this year, our season will be made or broken on the play of our OL. The right side looks especially weak and D's like Pitt and Indy are going to put a serious hurting on us unless we can find and anchor on that side.




  3. #3
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    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    the real key is can we pick up the blitzes and can the QB and receivers make the hot reads and perform. We won't stop seeing these blitzes until we do.
    I agree with that, and I think McNair will make defenses pay more often than not. Even a short pass over the middle can turn into a big gain if the defense is bringing the house.

    I don't expect our O to be tops in the league. I just want it to be something we can rely on. If it can control the clock, move the ball, and get us some points, our D will take care of the rest....and no, I'm not talking about a "don't make any mistakes" kind of offense. We can all agree we need more than that. We need a QB who reads defenses and puts the ball where it needs to be to give us the best chance to move downfield, get points, and win the battle of field position.

    I think McNair is the best guy on our roster to do that.
    It's not time to panic yet. There were a lot of good vibes heading into camp this year, and I hate to see that ruined.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    I think if you watch the replay you will see that the INT was Clayton's fault, not Macs. Clayton was open when the ball was released, but for some reason he decided to start drifting towards the sideline.
    Smoot was all over Clayton on that play, are you claiming Clayton was SUPPOSED to stop? I haven't read much on the game so maybe so, but the even if he stops SMOOT IS ALL OVER HIM. Throwing the ball in any case was a terrible decision.

    I did watch the replay and I saw McNair throw a soft ball to the outside that he had ZERO business throwing.




  5. #5

    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Smoot was all over Clayton on that play, are you claiming Clayton was SUPPOSED to stop? I haven't read much on the game so maybe so, but the even if he stops SMOOT IS ALL OVER HIM. Throwing the ball in any case was a terrible decision.
    That is exactly what I am saying. Clayton was supposed to run a 5 yrd curl into zone coverage. It was a timing play and he broke focus and started moving to the outside before he had the ball in his hands. Even if Smoot is all over him, if he sits down in the zone like he is supposed to Smoot has to go THOUGH him to get to the ball. Imcomplete pass at the worst. Instead, by peeling off to the outside, Clayton opened the door and gave Smoot the inside move.

    Look, it wasnt a pretty play, but the responsibility doesn't fall solely on Mac's shoulders.




  6. #6
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    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Okay, and I am not trying to get into an argument with you, but have you read or heard somewhere that Clayton was supposed to curl and not turn out? If so, please link.




  7. #7

    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Okay, and I am not trying to get into an argument with you, but have you read or heard somewhere that Clayton was supposed to curl and not turn out? If so, please link.
    Come on, you know I don't have a link.

    You can tell by watching the play. Clayton DID curl so it's not a guess on my part. The ball was released just as Clayton was turning in. This indicates that the play was a timing pass where the ball is on it's way before Clayton looks for it. For some reason he starts to sidestep towards the sidelines instead of holding his spot in the zone where the ball was already set to arrive.

    Regardless, Mac IS going to throw INTs this year so we should all get used to seeing it. Hopefully, he throws twice as many TDs.




  8. #8
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    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobtown
    Come on, you know I don't have a link.

    You can tell by watching the play.
    Well I will wait for the coaches to tell me Clayton was at fault. And how am I supposed to know you you don't have a link.

    Since Fanatic has the link, thanks Fanatic. That makes me feel better.




  9. #9

    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Well I will wait for the coaches to tell me Clayton was at fault.
    So then what exactly is the point of having any discussion with you if you are only willing to listen when you hear it from a coach?

    From the other thread:

    Again, when bad things happen with McNair the fingers point all over the place, when Boller does it is all his fault.
    It seems that some are willing to hang Mac out to dry after only 4 quarters of play. You were all on his jock after that first drive but now people are making excuses for him? I am not any happier with the way things went last than the rest of you, but you are guilty of NOT looking at anything other than QB play just as some are guilty of looking ONLY at QB play.

    All I am saying is that it is way too early to be making to sort of critisizms that you and T are throwing out there. Mac WILL make mistakes...just like Boller.




  10. Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Fassel has weighed in on this a bit too.

    According To Fassel

    "Steve wasn't alone on that interception,” offensive coordinator Jim Fassel said. “That was a play that had a couple of mistakes. We'll get that corrected."
    Will Die A Ravens Fan!!




  11. Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg
    Okay, and I am not trying to get into an argument with you, but have you read or heard somewhere that Clayton was supposed to curl and not turn out? If so, please link.
    Not in specifics, but close.

    Billicks Thoughts

    "And even their highly efficient passing attack was off-target. Steve McNair's first interception of the preseason was returned 69 yards for a touchdown by Vikings cornerback Fred Smoot, a turnover that coach Brian Billick chalked up to a "blown route" by receiver Mark Clayton."

    I agree all the way around though.
    The ball shouldn't have been thrown with that type of blanketed coverage.

    All in all, nothing about last night looked good!!
    Will Die A Ravens Fan!!




  12. #12

    Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg
    Okay, and I am not trying to get into an argument with you, but have you read or heard somewhere that Clayton was supposed to curl and not turn out? If so, please link.
    Actually, I did hear on the post game show last evening that the route Clayton ran on that play was wrong. Can't really provide a link for that, but I will take their word for it on that one.

    I agree with you on all the other stuff regarding standards for Boller and McNair.




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