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Thread: Two Key Browns

  1. #1
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    Oct 2006
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    Two Key Browns



    Two Key Browns

    I rewatched the Browns and Steelers to enjoy the performances of 2 of their best players, DT Shaun Rogers and LT Joe Thomas. Here’s how I saw them:

    Joe Thomas: He was drafted 3rd overall in 2007 as the Savage wisely did not reach for Quinn. Thomas made the Pro Bowl in his 1st season and barring injury appears headed for the Hall of Fame. He’s the complete package as both a mauling run blocker and excellent technical pass rusher.
    • As a run blocker, he picks a target and stays with his block through the play. He simply does not get caught standing up. He rarely needs to go for a level 2 block because he continually engages the man across from him.
    • As a pass blocker, it looks to me as if ordinary DE’s have very little hope of getting pressure. The Steelers rushed:
    o Keisel against him, and he was hurt late in the 1st quarter
    o Harrison rushed several times from that side and was the most effective, nearly beating him twice with a good speed rush. On the Browns 2nd drive, it appeared to me Thomas should have been called for a hold on #92.
    o Kirschke then became the primary end on that side and Thomas easily controlled him. Kirschke only really used a bull rush and might not have got good pressure even had Anderson stood in the pocket for 10 seconds (although I’m sure some other blocking assignment would break down). He was beaten once by #90 when Vickers interfered with his block, allowing Kirschke to slip outside, but Anderson nonetheless completed the pass to Winslow.
    o Eason has 2 or 3 plays on Thomas’ side and looked every bit as ineffective as Kirschke
    • What did we learn from this? Ordinary DE’s without a high-octane motor or some specialized move are going to have trouble. I’m afraid that will include Marques Douglas. Suggs may be able to get around him, but he’s going to have a long, physical day. Jarrett Johnson will not personally be able to get pressure 1-on-1 vs. Thomas, but I think he could be very effective at creating confusion in the pass rush as he did for much of 2006 (get his hands on Thomas, then drop to a short zone, creating overload opportunities). I particularly want to see how Thomas reacts to overload blitzes on his side, which the Steelers did not use much.
    • Madden pointed out the unbalanced line, which the Browns ran a total of 7 times. Each time I noticed it, it was unbalanced to the right with Thomas lining up as an ineligible TE on the right. Somewhat surprisingly, the Browns ran to the left side on a number of these plays.
    • It obviously was not a great game for the Browns offense. They ran for just 3.5 yards per play and managed just 2 FG, but Thomas was the best offensive player in the game for either team. In this context, Anderson’s performance was especially disappointing (44.5 QB rating).

    Shaun Rogers: “Big Baby” was picked up by the Browns this off season in a big trade with the Lions for Leigh Bodden and the Browns 3rd round draft pick. He addresses one of the biggest Browns needs. Much was made of Rogers play in this game and his overall production was good (6 tackles, 1 sack), but for the bulk of the game, he was handled in the running game. Here were his big plays:
    • Q2, 12:21 Rogers was handled by a double team at the LoS, but Pool made initial contact in the backfield and Rogers shook free to clean up Parker for a 2-yard loss.
    • Q2, 7:16 He slipped off his block to register an ankle stop as Parker ran middle for 1 yard.
    • Q3, 14:16 Cleaned up again, this time off Shaun Smith’s initial contact for a 2-yard stuff on Parker. The TFL was lost when the Browns accepted a holding penalty on Miller.
    • Q3, 13:02 Lined up at RDE on 2nd and 15. The pass play developed slowly and Roeth was forced to step up in the pocket to avoid pressure from McDonald just as Rogers split his double team to record the sack. Roethlisberger appeared to hurt his shoulder on the play. Robaire Smith was also seriously injured on the play and did not return.
    • Q3, 8:11 Delivered a nice QH on Roethlisberger as he threw incomplete on 3rd down
    • Q3, 0:35 Stopped cold by a double team as the Steelers threw on 2nd and 10 from their own 2. Rogers was pinballed between a double by the RG and C to one by the LG and C. Roethlisberger’s 31-yard completion to Ward was arguably the game’s biggest play and just the get-out-of-jail card the Steelers needed to sit on their lead.
    • Q4, 11:59 Diagnosed the screen pass on 2nd and 9 and ran down Ward for a 3-yard loss. Rogers impressively bounced off his block without being redirected.
    • Q4, 11:06 Got a cheap late hit on #7 as he put his not inconsiderably sized shoulder directly into Ben’s after he threw incomplete on 3rd and 12.
    • If you want to see a play where the offensive line handles stunting linemen with textbook precision, check out the Steelers 2nd and 7 play with 7:49 to go in Q1. Rogers initially got push on Kemo who slid him to the outside. As Wimbley looped to the inside, Kemo released Rogers to Smith and re-engaged on WImbley to maintain the pocket.
    • He was pancaked 3 times early in the game
    • He’s happy to attack between 2 linemen, doing exactly what a good DT should to pick up a double team.
    • He played all but 9 of the Steelers 53 offensive plays, and perhaps surprisingly from the way Baltimore uses big DT’s, he was regularly in there on passing downs and took most of his plays off on 1st and 2nd down. It makes sense when you look at his 7 sacks last season. In any case, that’s 83% of plays, which is really too much for most interior defensive linemen. Ngata played 76% for the 2007 Ravens, but no other Raven DT has played more than 67% in any of 2000, 2006, or 2007.
    • On the last drive, as the Steelers were running out the clock, Rogers looked tired.
    • Rogers often traps himself with his aggressive penetration in run defense. It looked like he was also effectively handled when 2 blockers initially engage him. Once repositioned slightly, one blocker can take him and the other can slip off for a 2nd level block. Brown will have primary responsibility for Rogers Sunday, but he’ll need good support to both sides from Yanda and Grubbs.




  2. #2

    Re: Two Key Browns

    Thanks for the insights into the play of two of our upcoming opponent's most important guys.




  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Re: Two Key Browns

    Once again great work my friend...
    Section 517 since 2001!!!! Real fans sit real high!!!![




  4. #4

    Re: Two Key Browns

    Thomas does look like a very good LT, but he is not going to dominate our DEs and LBs the same way. The Steelers did not get nearly the same kind of pocket push the Ravens get with Pryce. The tackles usually get beat when the Qb is forced to move or is not able to step up.

    I have been arguing that the middle of the line is more important than your tackle because the pass blocking is going to be a lot easier on 3rd down if you are winning 1st and 2nd down in the middle.

    The Ravens C and G play looked incredible in the preseason game vs the Vikings and dominated the Bungle DTs. Rodgers and Willimas for the Browns are good and similar to the Viking DTs in size and style, but not as good or as well rested. I think the Ravens will be able to combo block and trap Rodgers all day and wear him out. I really like the way the Steelers gamed him. They used one play in particuar where they had the G fake a pull one way only to double back and lead a bootleg. Rodgers ran around like 30 yards and was easy to block the rest of the day.




  5. #5

    Re: Two Key Browns

    Brother, you are an absolute freak of nature with your comprehensive analysis.

    Thanks for the dedication, man.

    I pretty much figured that Rogers will be game planned for on defense, given his performance on Sunday Night. I still think that our offense has a reasonably nice upside that will reveal itself against the Browns' suspect secondary.

    UNLEASH THE BEASTS!!!!




  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Re: Two Key Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by RAVENOUS52 View Post
    Brother, you are an absolute freak of nature with your comprehensive analysis.

    Thanks for the dedication, man.
    Agreed. I love reading this kind of stuff. I can't tell you how much I appriciate it.

    Thanks again!
    .
    .

    There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable…

    There is another theory which states that this - has - already - happened…



    "We don't have a town drunk...we all take turns..."




  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Huddersfield, England
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    968

    Re: Two Key Browns

    Have to agree - thanks for the insight. I am 3,000 miles away and it is not easy to get insights on our, or another, team.




  8. #8

    Re: Two Key Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by RAVENOUS52 View Post
    Brother, you are an absolute freak of nature with your comprehensive analysis.

    Thanks for the dedication, man.

    I pretty much figured that Rogers will be game planned for on defense, given his performance on Sunday Night. I still think that our offense has a reasonably nice upside that will reveal itself against the Browns' suspect secondary.
    Ain't nothing to add but...


    Wow!!.......Dude...Thats serious dedication!!
    I bow down and say thanks!!!




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