Highest Traces of Cocaine Found on U.S. Bills

[Galen Sevinne]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...foundonusbills

Thought I would freshen the board a bit and get off of the subject of domestic politics. I saw this headline and thought I would post some ideas on what I see as an example of how america often imposes its will around the world with little concerns about the customs and beliefs of other countries.

I spent quite a bit of time in Bolivia some years back (pre-Morales). Bolivia is a unique country in that is has essentially two capitals - a financial center in the eastern lowlands and the political center in the western Alto region. The east is more european in decent while the west is more indigenous, more "andean"...generally speaking that is.

A core of their pre-christian religious belief includes the use of Coca leaves used for ceremonial practices. Additionally workers in the fields and tin mines chew Coca leaves as a way to stay alert and stave off hunger while working. It is really our equivalent of drinking coffee or tea.

I have chewed pounds of coca leaves as well as snorted plenty of cocaine. (if it matters, it has been over 15 years since I used cocaine and never once out of the u.s....it is one of the worst drugs to ever use - kids just say "NO" :) ) Anyway, the reason I share that is that there is really no comparison in chewing coca and snorting cocaine. A comparison might be simlar to smoking a cigarette or smoking pot. Andeans do not see coca as a drug.

Drinking coca tea or chewing leaves also greatly reduces the effects of altitiude. The political capital - La Paz - is around 12,000 feet. It seems to encourage better blood flow. Hiking around 20,000 ft., chewing coca really helps...again not to get high but just to help you feel like you are not suffocating in the thin air.

So that is some background. Here is my problem. While the Bolivians are content with growing and chewing coca...americans, europeans, etc. with their need for greater and better will condense and process the leaves into cocaine. Bolivians don't. I didn't meet one Bolivian in my years there that used coca in the form of cocaine. In a way for them it would be like a christian using his bible as a foot step to reach a higher shelf.

Of course, in america cocaine has been a big problem since the 80's. The supply has increased if you look at prices. 20 years ago it was $100 a gram...today, kids are telling me that they are getting it for $50 a gram. I would assume that means the supply is growing and erradication efforts must not be working.

Americas response to this continues to be attempts to eradicate it in south american countries where the coca grows. This has a major economical effect on an already desperately poor country but also a spirtiual effect. Economic because campesinos have been growing it for generations for legitamate reasons. Because some americans can't control our restlessness without various addictive outlets (drugs, shopping, eating, dysfunctional relationships, etc.) - (myself not immune as mentioned) we have to more or less napalm the fields of coca in Bolivia.

I was in the coca growing region once and witnessed an erradication of a poor farmers crop. I really don't think this guy was processing cocaine. it was really a sad event. I tried to get an explanation from one of the military guys but his spanish was too mixed with ayamaran to make sense to me. I could only watch.

So is it ok for the u.s. to impose its will on the culture of this country, to prohibit them from leading a life that they have for generations because of our own uncontrolled desires? This all goes hand in hand with our need for bigger cars, houses, t.v.s etc. and how we will indisciminatley impose our wills to get these things which in the end, really provide little.

Its policies like these that irritate the Morales' of the world who happens to sit a top a nice supply of natural gas. He has little incentive to cater to americans with how he sees our imposistions on him. Thus energy prices go up.

But that is really not the reason for this post. Instead I hope to point out one example of many of how u.s. policy imposes itself on developing nations...greatly affecting them economically and spiritually with little to no gain at home. Its these policys that arguably lead to higer energy prices, terrorism, inabilities to travel freely and explore the world and ultimately...maybe..to our own restlessness here at home whihch makes it really difficult for americans to just sit and be.

If you read this far I am impressed! and look for intelligent discussions on this otherwise boring and uneventful Tuesday morning.

[jonboy79]

I hadn't thought of this side of the argument, but it makes sense. I've never chewed a coca leave, but I'm a bit interested.
In general our government likes to impose it's will on it's own citizens too much for my liking to begin with, it's a bit over the top when they do it elsewhere.
When are they going to simply give up liek they idd with prohibition. Prohibition lead to gangsters, and the war on drugs has lead to the same. IT does not curtail but increase violent crime, and deprives American's of what has become an almost majority opiinion of what should be allowed. Cannabanoids are tolerated by a near majority of the society and used by a HUGE minority. Other, harder drugs have large followings.
I am strongly against laws agaisnt drugs, and prostitution. Legalization, organization, controlling distribution and taxation of both would cut down significantly on violent crime, as well as provide funding for the police to fight the crimes they should be.

[HoustonRaven]

Big dogs impose their will on little dogs ... its a function of biology, dating back to us crawling out of the sea. We think that because of our progress, we have this "knowledge" to act outside our own biologic blue print. We dont.

Are you really saying it's ok for these countries to produce and profit from cocaine since they are poor and must earn a buck? Might as well say dont protect your house because the dude that wants to steal from you, rape your wife and kids, etc is only doing so to make a living.

Certainly the "War on Drugs" needs some re-working and some original ideas. I have long favored making pot legal. Not sure where I stand on other drugs. I had the same stance of JonBoy until I watched season 3 of The Wire -- that season made me rethink that stance.

[jonboy79]

Are you saying Violent crime would not decrease if drugs and prostitution were legalized?

[Galen Sevinne]

Big dogs impose their will on little dogs ... its a function of biology, dating back to us crawling out of the sea. We think that because of our progress, we have this "knowledge" to act outside our own biologic blue print. We dont.

Just by the nature of our awareness of this biological blueprint, means we have the ability to act outside of it.

Are you really saying it's ok for these countries to produce and profit from cocaine since they are poor and must earn a buck? Might as well say dont protect your house because the dude that wants to steal from you, rape your wife and kids, etc is only doing so to make a living.

Of course that would not be ok but that is the exactly perspective that I was arguing against initially. As along as we believe that the coca fields in Bolivia are only being used for the processing of cocaine, it allows us to essentially naplam the spiritual beliefs and customs of the Andean culture that has little to no awareness of cocaine at all. This is a travesty...in my opinion.

As along as you see the argument as analogous to someone raping my wife for profit there is no way you can get yourself to a place where you will be able to consider my point.

Certainly the "War on Drugs" needs some re-working and some original ideas. I have long favored making pot legal. Not sure where I stand on other drugs. I had the same stance of JonBoy until I watched season 3 of The Wire -- that season made me rethink that stance.

There are not many Latin Americans that believe the "War on Drugs" is really a war on drugs. It sounds nice and is an easy sell although if you look at the data, there has been absolutely no effect on drugs coming into our country in the 20 some years the "war on drugs" has been happening.

Educated Latin American scholars see the war on drugs as an easy way for the u.s. to put american military on the ground in what used to be and still is to a degree a hotbed for leftist revolutionaries. Cocaine is half the price today as it was 15 years ago. Economics 101 should clearly show there isn't much war going on against drugs.

Respectfully, I think your comments demonstrate the easy sell of this. The vast majority of coca farmers in Bolivia grow coca for either personal use, for sale in markets in the form of leaves, sale to companies that package it in the form of tea and finally make it available for spiritual reasons. Coca has been used for 1000's of years in South America. The Incas - 500 years ago - used to wear pouches to hold coca leaves. To say the permitting of the indigenous growing of coca is comparable to permitting someone to come into my house and rape my wife is really...really missing my point.

Of course that might just be one of the fundamental differences in conservative vs. progressive thought.

I do agree that marijuana should be legalized but the other drugs should never be.

[Galen Sevinne]

I hadn't thought of this side of the argument, but it makes sense. I've never chewed a coca leave, but I'm a bit interested.

Then travel along the Andean spine in South America from Ecuador down to Chile. You can buy coca in all the markets. Be careful though there is something about Latin American travel that makes you see the world in a very different manner. While I never once considered citizenship in another country and never once backed down expressing my belief in the American "ideals" (Ideals being the key word here), there is something that feels more accurate and organically real about how people live their lives there. You could come back and find yourself deconstructing the values and beliefs that we as americans currently find ourselves immersed in. Then you get yelled at by other Raven fans for being a commie;)

In general our government likes to impose it's will on it's own citizens too much for my liking to begin with, it's a bit over the top when they do it elsewhere.

but its about the "wars" man. We have to fight the "wars". America was built on wars, its imbedded in our collective unconscious. We are always up for a war and the sale of the war is recently an easy...easy sell.

When are they going to simply give up liek they idd with prohibition. Prohibition lead to gangsters, and the war on drugs has lead to the same. IT does not curtail but increase violent crime, and deprives American's of what has become an almost majority opiinion of what should be allowed. Cannabanoids are tolerated by a near majority of the society and used by a HUGE minority. Other, harder drugs have large followings.
I am strongly against laws agaisnt drugs, and prostitution. Legalization, organization, controlling distribution and taxation of both would cut down significantly on violent crime, as well as provide funding for the police to fight the crimes they should be.

I would be careful about legalizing cocaine, heroin and maybe the hallucinogens. I might be ok with the psilocybin 'shrooms but that would take some more consideration.

[Greg]

Big dogs impose their will on little dogs ... its a function of biology, dating back to us crawling out of the sea. We think that because of our progress, we have this "knowledge" to act outside our own biologic blue print. We dont.

Nonsense. Then again, I don't agree it is a "function of biology." We have an intellect that we should be able to use to override our physical drives.

Of course my spiritual beliefs affect my view, but trying to put those aside I don't see why we can't overcome physical drives.

As for the war on drugs, huge waste and huge cause of violence.

[Rochardrik]

We have gone way awry in our effort against drug usage. The "Reefer Madness" mentality towards marijuana is the worst travesty. The movie, and the propaganda was originally proliferated by Mr.Dupont, because he wanted to promote the use of nylon rope over hemp. Thus he started this entire smear campaign against marijuana in the '30's, which has set the stage for the, believe it or not, still reigning attitudes toward pot. My thoughts, as a former '60's early '70's teen are this. Stop trying to convince the kids that drugs are all the same. Drugs are bad unkay? so don't do drugs because drugs are bad unkay?(Mr. Mackey.). They need to be told the truth! I can assure you that part of my doing cocaine back then was attributal to the fact that I tried pot, and found their assertions about it's dangers to be wrong. So, my foray into other substances was greatly facilitated by the fact that I reasoned,
"what do they know?". As an adult, now 54, I realize that the differences are phenomenal, and should not be downplayed, and that the "education" about drugs would be a whole lot more helpful, if the truth were told. U.S gov't studies on pot, until recently were nearly nonexistant for a number of years, because the researchers were not coming up with the results the US wanted them to, therefore very little moneys were granted for said studies. Recently, though, the Cancer Research Center in Bethesda has come out with findings that conclude. Pot does not cause lung cancer, it intead kills off old and weakened cells, those susceptible to cancer. It is NOT highly addictive, and does NOT cause otherwise motivated people to become lazy.
As for the other illegal drugs, just the fact that an overdose can kill you, should be enough to differentiate between them and pot.
But what do I know?

[jonboy79]

Good post but a couple fo things. I heard my whole life that pot is not addictive, that is in fact FALSE. There are withdrawal effects, and they can persist for quite some time, but it is a different animal from Heroin or cocaine. It is a different kind of addiction.

Your brain and your body can be accustomed to using it as a crutch. After extended use and abruptly ending said use, users will find it hard to eat, sleep, relax, laugh and do many of the things that were brought on by use. Several months of insomnia is not out of the question for long termed habitual users. Wild mood swings, failure to handle stress and loss of appetite typically don't persist as long.

That said, it is laughable that it is an illegal substance, and you are absolutely correct that it has more to do with Nylon, Paper, oils and chmicals that Dupont and his contemporaries were producing then it does with it's use as a drug.

I hadn't ever really put it together the whole "they were wrong about this..." line of thinking btu you are correct. it goes with my lien of thinking that Marijuana is nto a gateway drug, btu a gateway experience. It is the experience of breaking the law, and hanging out with seedy characters, or in seedy places, that bring you into other harder drugs. If it were available and controlled like alcohol and tobacco, I think we would have less high school ages heroin addicts.

[Rochardrik]

Good post but a couple fo things. I heard my whole life that pot is not addictive, that is in fact FALSE. There are withdrawal effects, and they can persist for quite some time, but it is a different animal from Heroin or cocaine. It is a different kind of addiction.

Your brain and your body can be accustomed to using it as a crutch. After extended use and abruptly ending said use, users will find it hard to eat, sleep, relax, laugh and do many of the things that were brought on by use. Several months of insomnia is not out of the question for long termed habitual users. Wild mood swings, failure to handle stress and loss of appetite typically don't persist as long.

That said, it is laughable that it is an illegal substance, and you are absolutely correct that it has more to do with Nylon, Paper, oils and chmicals that Dupont and his contemporaries were producing then it does with it's use as a drug.

I hadn't ever really put it together the whole "they were wrong about this..." line of thinking btu you are correct. it goes with my lien of thinking that Marijuana is nto a gateway drug, btu a gateway experience. It is the experience of breaking the law, and hanging out with seedy characters, or in seedy places, that bring you into other harder drugs. If it were available and controlled like alcohol and tobacco, I think we would have less high school ages heroin addicts.

I didn't say it wasn't addictive, I said it wasn't HIGHLY addictive. I have quit before, and it is easy to do if you just cut back little by little. It's not completely, but nearly painless.
And you are right. The "gateway drug" label is incorrectly applied. The real problem is that, being illegal, it is associated with, and obtained from the same sources as other, more dangerous drugs.
And I'm tired of hearing, yes, but, it is much stronger now. Bullshit! I remember Panama red, Columbian gold, Thai weed, Laotian, Jamaican, all of which was just as potent as the "chronic" that is overhyped, and overpriced today!

[HoustonRaven]

The best analogy about "The War on Drugs" was on season 1 of The Wire.

Carver: "You cant even call this shit a war"

Herc: "Why Not?"

Carver (calmly): "wars end"