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  1. #25

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    That's fair. But the Bisciotti regime doesnt seem hell bent on spending like a drunken sailor. He seems to be pulling Ozzie back.
    I imagine you have some sort of fact to back this up right?





  2. #26
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    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    That's fair. But the Bisciotti regime doesnt seem hell bent on spending like a drunken sailor. He seems to be pulling Ozzie back.
    I agree with that. And I agree with you psuasskicker as well. My point was that it was the front office that created this problem. And then we franchised Suggs on top of it.

    AD and Hartwell we let go. Suggs we're trying to hold onto. But the problem is that whether or not we think Suggs is worth the money, Suggs sees the contracts Ray, Ed, Steve, and Todd got; and HE thinks he's worth that money.

    It's a monster Steve and Ozzie created. If they are trying to rein that in, I think with Suggs it's too late for that.





  3. #27
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    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by RavinDonnie View Post
    I imagine you have some sort of fact to back this up right?
    It's called history. It's a wonderful tool for debate that you ought to try sometime.

    Besides McNair, which I alreayd pointed out earlier in the thread, who has been signed to some outragous contract since Bisciotti took over the reigns?

    Good luck trying to find one.





  4. #28
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    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    I agree with that. And I agree with you psuasskicker as well. My point was that it was the front office that created this problem. And then we franchised Suggs on top of it.

    AD and Hartwell we let go. Suggs we're trying to hold onto. But the problem is that whether or not we think Suggs is worth the money, Suggs sees the contracts Ray, Ed, Steve, and Todd got; and HE thinks he's worth that money.

    It's a monster Steve and Ozzie created. If they are trying to rein that in, I think with Suggs it's too late for that.
    I agree Ozzie created it. You lose me at Bisciotti though. In any event, they do seem like they are trying to rein it in no matter who is to blame for past gaffes.

    And I agree that a lot of this is in Suggs' head.





  5. #29

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    It's called history. It's a wonderful tool for debate that you ought to try sometime.

    Besides McNair, which I alreayd pointed out earlier in the thread, who has been signed to some outragous contract since Bisciotti took over the reigns?

    Good luck trying to find one.
    40 mill for a head case running that he is too out of shape to play in the 4th quarter and is currently faking a knee injury is a lot.

    Anything over the vet min. for Boller is ridiculous.

    Wow, that was hard.
    Last edited by RavinDonnie; 08-06-2008 at 08:57 PM.





  6. #30

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    The fact is, this team pays out HUGE money to a few players. We've had plenty of pro bowlers over the past years yet no playoff wins. We need to stop dishing out monster deals and start being proactive and sign players before they hit the market. Jason Brown is a prime example.

    PP
    Good 'nuff on Heap...didn't remember.

    I agree that we should be working harder to sign guys earlier. Your Jason Brown example is definitely a good one.

    With that said, I think you make it sound too easy, like guys are just begging to sign below-market deals a year before they hit the free agent market. Guys want to hit the FA market. That's their huge pay-day. The one and only reason they have to not hit it is out of fear of a major injury impacting their ability to get a monster contract.

    But still, that's rare. Tell me which other organizations playing outside of Boston that have been able to resign a majority of their players for reasonable deals...

    - C -





  7. #31
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    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I agree Ozzie created it. You lose me at Bisciotti though. In any event, they do seem like they are trying to rein it in no matter who is to blame for past gaffes.

    And I agree that a lot of this is in Suggs' head.

    Wasn't Heap and Ed Reed's contracts under Bisciotti though? I think Ray's contract came under Art Modell though, didn't it?

    Like I said, I think he's trying to do it NOW. But I think it's the Suggs situation that has brought this more to the front.





  8. #32

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    Good 'nuff on Heap...didn't remember.

    I agree that we should be working harder to sign guys earlier. Your Jason Brown example is definitely a good one.

    With that said, I think you make it sound too easy, like guys are just begging to sign below-market deals a year before they hit the free agent market. Guys want to hit the FA market. That's their huge pay-day. The one and only reason they have to not hit it is out of fear of a major injury impacting their ability to get a monster contract.

    But still, that's rare. Tell me which other organizations playing outside of Boston that have been able to resign a majority of their players for reasonable deals...

    - C -
    The Eagles do it all the time.

    Westbrook signed a 5 year 25 million dollar deal 2 years ago.

    They locked up Dawkins at a bargin.

    While I agree that guys want to hit the market but if a team comes with a legit offer a year or 2 before a guy is an unrestricted FA, they will look at it very seriously.

    Every player knows that contracts aren't guaranteed and that a blown knee can cost millions.

    And if a guy signs a nice deal early in their career and stays healthy, they will get to sign another nice sized deal 4 to 5 years later.

    In fact the Ravens FO encouraged Ray to do that when he signed his monster deal 7 years ago. He could've gotten a 12-14 million bonus and gotten another fat bonus 4 years later. But he wanted to be the highest player in the league.

    My point is that I don't think the Ravens FO is pro active at all when it comes to at least trying to initiate contract extension talks with guys like Brown. They seem perfectly willing to wait for their RFA year and then negotiate after that.

    Not the best course of action IMO.

    PP





  9. #33

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    The Eagles do it all the time.

    Westbrook signed a 5 year 25 million dollar deal 2 years ago.

    They locked up Dawkins at a bargin.
    I don't think the Eagles are the best example of this as they seem to overdo it. Westbrook now wants a new contract and Andrews is staging a non-holdout holdout... Their way seems to make their players feel screwed by the organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    My point is that I don't think the Ravens FO is pro active at all when it comes to at least trying to initiate contract extension talks with guys like Brown. They seem perfectly willing to wait for their RFA year and then negotiate after that.

    Not the best course of action IMO.
    I agree. The handling of the Brown situation for example seems surprising. It's hard to understand why the team doesn't give key players a choice between an extension (at a reasonable price for both the player and the team) and the RFA/franchise tag(s) and the subsequent eventual unrestricted free agency for the player.

    A bit of the same goes for the Suggs situation. They made him a lucrative offer at the last moment before the deadline. Why not make that offer earlier in the offseason? If he rejects it, make it publicly known and listen to trade offers. If you are desperate to keep him, you can always franchise him again.





  10. #34
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    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Wasn't Heap and Ed Reed's contracts under Bisciotti though? I think Ray's contract came under Art Modell though, didn't it?

    Like I said, I think he's trying to do it NOW. But I think it's the Suggs situation that has brought this more to the front.
    I guess it comes down to what you think is a bad contract.

    Go back in time to the signing of Heap and it was welll deserved. Top 5, if not top 3, TE's in the league at the time. We now know he hasnt lived up to the cash with all of his injuries since the signing, but there was no way to know this would happen.

    Reed's contract was and is well deserved. He is one of the best, if not THE best in his position. He should be paid as such. That's a function of the free market, not of any particular team over speanding.

    Ray WAS the best at his position but can still contribute in a big way in way of tackles. Plus you add on his attachment to the team (and let us not forget what we just saw with Farve being shipped over to the Jets in a very public and ugly manner). All of a sudden paying a little more doesnt seem so bad from a PR point of view, IMHO.

    Again, I guess it comes down to your definition of a bad contract.

    Glad you're back, Sting!





  11. #35

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    I agre with Houston. You have to pay your all pro players when they become free agents. The Ravens may not have gotten a home team discount, but they did not overpay either.

    It was possible we were ocassionally bidding against ourselves a little, but it was a gamble worth taking even if we lost. There is no player I can think of since Leon Searcy who we gave a bunch of cash to and got nothing. He blew out his triceps on first contact, but was a perenial all pro RT we needed.

    That is the part of the critical commentary I don't get. There is a lot of risk, a lot of luck and other factors that determine how a player pans out. You can not only look at the end result and judge the decision.





  12. #36

    Re: O Line Situation and Suggs

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    My point is that I don't think the Ravens FO is pro active at all when it comes to at least trying to initiate contract extension talks with guys like Brown. They seem perfectly willing to wait for their RFA year and then negotiate after that.

    Not the best course of action IMO.

    PP
    No question in my mind this is correct.

    FWIW, I don't see too many deals the Ravens handed out that I thought were bad deals. Yeah, they signed a few guys to some huge deals. But nothing that looked on the surface utterly ridiculous. Especially given how the cap escalates every year...

    - C -





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