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  1. #16

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....



    I do like Henne, I think he could be grabbed later, though this may change. He has looked godo at the senior bowl, and really was dogged early after Appalchian State, btu came back stronger late in the year... IF we miss on Both Brohm and Ryan, and trade back in either round, and acquire a mid=late 2nd in the process, I would be inclined to use that pick on that gry over an earlier pick on Woodson, Ainge or Flacco. Henne may be passing all three in my books'




  2. #17
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Why not an O linemen?

    We could draft Jesus and wouldnt matter one bit if we cant protect him long term. Linemen are not sexy picks, I freely admit it. But with JO and others on the downside of their careers, we need to protect whomever is making the throws. That's the modle other teams have set forth (Pats, Colts, Steelers, Skins back in the 80's, etc.) and it works.

    When building a battleship, you lay the armour before you install the guns!
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #18
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Why not an O linemen?

    We could draft Jesus and wouldnt matter one bit if we cant protect him long term. Linemen are not sexy picks, I freely admit it. But with JO and others on the downside of their careers, we need to protect whomever is making the throws. That's the modle other teams have set forth (Pats, Colts, Steelers, Skins back in the 80's, etc.) and it works.

    When building a battleship, you lay the armour before you install the guns!
    To continue on your analogy, we've been bringing the armour in for the last few drafts. We now need to bring in the right guy to rivet the armour together. That is a work in progress, we need to give these guys a chance to gel and get the right guy behind thme.

    Also, another young guy doesn't help this offensive line in my opinion. They wouldn't displace anyone other than Ogden or Flynn, which would only make this line younger. I've mentioned it before but if Flynn and Ogden both go, Jason Brown is our most experienced o-lineman with about 25 starts to his name. We'd need a damned fine offensive line coach for that to be a suitable situation in terms of leadership on that line.

    I think if we upgrade this line we bring in a vet, don't see young guys upgrading this line particularly, just sets back the line gelling for another season IMO.




  4. #19

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Stockers, completely agree on Leodis McKelvin and Henne. I dunno if #8 is too high for McKelvin or Cason though. I just did my initial top 32 and I have this draft as: 5 players at the top, then 20 or so below them almost equal. My top 5 are: Jake Long, McFadden, Dorsey, Ellis and Chris Long.

    Id love us to trade down 10 spots or so and grab McKelvin or Cason. Then take Henne or Booty in round two.




  5. #20

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Can I also thank whoever it was that added the new scottish flag as a smily. Much appreciated!!!!





  6. Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Why not an O linemen?

    We could draft Jesus and wouldnt matter one bit if we cant protect him long term. Linemen are not sexy picks, I freely admit it. But with JO and others on the downside of their careers, we need to protect whomever is making the throws. That's the modle other teams have set forth (Pats, Colts, Steelers, Skins back in the 80's, etc.) and it works.

    When building a battleship, you lay the armour before you install the guns!

    We may have our differences here on this board, but I come from the same school of thought regarding this.

    If you look at the more productive offenses in this league, they all have generally one thing in common....
    Strong offensive lines...

    We are extremely weak at offensive tackle right now, and quite frankly, have been that way for awhile.
    To me, Yanda simply is not an NFL right tackle.
    He can get by, but not ideal with his size.
    He got the crap beat out of him by the higher quality defensive ends this year, and I don't see that changing much.

    Lord only knows what Ogden is going to do, but even if he comes back (which I doubt), he is not a long term solution, and the drop off if he gets hurt is dramatic.
    That basically leaves Terry who seems to do alright at LT, and Gaither with very little experience but could probably step in and play RT.

    We have no depth after that.

    We need a true pass rushing defnsive end!!

    When Pryce went down, the entire defense changed dramatically.
    Your secondarys best friend is the pass rush.
    We got alot of tweener linebacker types, but not a great deal of depth at true defensive end.
    With a pass rush, I think our secondary could survive if only one of our two starting DBs were to get hurt.
    Running out guys that we ran out at the end of last year to start both sides was tragic, and we all saw it.

    Not too often that both your starting DBs go down, so I'd roll the dice anticipating that you may only lose one.
    McCallister rarely is injured.

    With that being said, I'd still look for another quality DB for depth at minimum, but wouldn't make it the top priority.

    QB is a priority, but I think if you fix up the O-line abit more you help out our current crop of QBs to be a little more successful.

    I think you can grab a QB in the later rounds and still be successful if you pick the right guy.

    Look at some of the teams that were in the post season, or were damn close this year, and who they have at QB, and where they were picked.

    Tom Brady-5th round pick(obviously this doesn't happen very often, but it does happen)
    Matt Hassleback-not sure where he was picked, but it wasn't real high IIRC.

    Tony Romo-undrafted free agent.
    Derrik Anderson-6th or 7th round.

    That's enough examples right now I think, but they all have high quality offensive lines helping them be successful.

    Now some of this will probably be fixed through free agency, but I don't think anymore then 1 or 2 spots at most.

    The only way we take a QB at #8 is if it's Matt Ryan, and I doubt he'll be there, but one never knows.

    I would definitely be looking to trade down and try and bilk some teams later first rounder and second round pick.

    You can more then most likely get a QB like maybe Woodson or Dixon in the high second round or possibly a little later, and fill three holes we really need to fill with three picks in rounds 1 & 2.

    With the later first round pick you get in a trade you can fill either the DE or OT spot, and fill the other with the second of 2 second round picks.

    If we're lucky, we get a compensatory round 3 pick for one of the big three free agents we lost last year.

    Fill in other needs with the later rounds and hope you hit on at least one which we seem to do fairly often.

    I don't know, this is not my field of expertise, but it seems to work wonders for teams like the pats, cowboys, etc., and has proven to work well for s in past drafts.

    Holding the #8 pick puts us in a good spot to do this if the right opportunity presents itself, and I would definitely go that way if it does.
    Will Die A Ravens Fan!!




  7. #22
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    The more I hear, the more I think we'll end up with a DE in the first round.

    We need a big body in the middle too, Buddy Lee isn't getting any younger.

    And yes, an OT and a CB are priorities too.

    And I may be in the minority, but I'd like to see someone brought in to push Landry at safety. A Corey Harris type who can lay the wood.

    And a QB...oh, my.

    Ozzie, you better have your draft shoes on, you're gonna need 'em!


    WORLD CHAMPIONS 2000 * 2012




  8. #23

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Come on people, the investment has been made on the OL... we can only get better there by lettign them play. Drafting a first round tackle not named LOng won't help us now. Terry is more then "alright" at LT, in fact he is significantly better there currently then Ogden. Yanda is simply NOT "Not an NFLTackle" He got blown up by Jason Tayor, one of the best DE's in the history of football, and last years DPOY... Did you watch the season before that game?
    I love your list of late day QB's, care to share the list of the other 250 2nd day guys drafted during that time span? Round 6 QB's, which for some statistical anomoly come out very good. Abotu 1 in 5 will be successful, better then both the 4th and 5th rounds... and MUCH better then 7th and UDFA's... Romo didn't hit hte field for almost 4 years? We don't have that kind of time, we need to get better at the QB position, ASAP, and we need to hit on the guy. That to me is the new First day, or bust... IF we don't get one of the top handful of QB's i the draft we failed, MISERABLY.




  9. Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Come on people, the investment has been made on the OL... we can only get better there by lettign them play. Drafting a first round tackle not named LOng won't help us now. Terry is more then "alright" at LT, in fact he is significantly better there currently then Ogden. Yanda is simply NOT "Not an NFLTackle" He got blown up by Jason Tayor, one of the best DE's in the history of football, and last years DPOY... Did you watch the season before that game?
    I love your list of late day QB's, care to share the list of the other 250 2nd day guys drafted during that time span? Round 6 QB's, which for some statistical anomoly come out very good. Abotu 1 in 5 will be successful, better then both the 4th and 5th rounds... and MUCH better then 7th and UDFA's... Romo didn't hit hte field for almost 4 years? We don't have that kind of time, we need to get better at the QB position, ASAP, and we need to hit on the guy. That to me is the new First day, or bust... IF we don't get one of the top handful of QB's i the draft we failed, MISERABLY.

    You certainly are entitled to your opinion as we all are, that's what this place is for.

    Regarding Yanda, his reach is what is in question here.
    Did he perform adequate in alot of games?
    Certainly but when you get to the next level (post season) he's basically playing nothing but the upper tier defensive ends.
    Quite frankly, you'll have to play several to even get to the post season.
    So by your logic, having somebody who is OK against a good deal of the league is OK, but having a key position on the O-line struggle protecting your QB against upper tier DEs is acceptable.

    And now you want to put a first round pick behind that?

    The QB position is by far probably the toughest to pick and hit.

    I gave a few examples of guys picked in later rounds that have done well.
    Nowhere did I say they are sure things in the latter stages of the draft as most are not.

    You seem to think that we have to take a projected top tier QB in the early first round or this draft will be a failure.

    Maybe you should go back and review how successful those picks have been.
    You can start with one that's currently on our roster.

    The fact remains that the majority of QBs picked in the draft don't pan out the way they are projected for a variety of reasons, but you want to blow the cap on a high first round QB pick simply because he's projected as being a first rounder that will do well.
    Hell, alot of drafts none of the top QBs picked pan out at all.


    Regardless of where they take one if they do at all, he won't see the field in any meaningful playing time until the earliest being 2009.

    Exactly how long is your time line to reach success with your comment "We don't have that kind of time"?

    The game is won in the trenches, and those soldiers need to be able to take on all battles in order for just about any QB to have success.

    Yup, let's take a day one cap busting QB, put him back there and watch him get his brains busted out because our RT can't handle the elite pass rushers but is Ok with everybody else.

    Been there, done that already for too many years.
    Will Die A Ravens Fan!!




  10. #25
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Well i don't see us drafting a QB first. Ryan will be gone to ATL. Top 8 pick money, I'll say..... A WR. Or CB. But a Wr would help cam. And Troy or Kyle.

    What if Troy do suceed, draft a late Qb this year, get a wr,cb, de/cb, qb,c/te, c/te, and a cb/lb. Just my thought.

    As for the O line, i like to see a great line coach come in and work with the young guys. Let them gel. A center in day 2 and a vet in free agEncy. I'm all for that.

    I just love this off season. A lot of things to focus on. WOw!! but can anyone see the wisdom of OZ, shocking everyone and get a WR. If we keep the 8th pick, where would you spend that money. good question OZZIE.

    D-Will, Mark, MASon, and a top 8 wr.




  11. #26
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Come on people, the investment has been made on the OL... we can only get better there by lettign them play. Drafting a first round tackle not named LOng won't help us now. Terry is more then "alright" at LT, in fact he is significantly better there currently then Ogden. Yanda is simply NOT "Not an NFLTackle" He got blown up by Jason Tayor, one of the best DE's in the history of football, and last years DPOY... Did you watch the season before that game?
    I love your list of late day QB's, care to share the list of the other 250 2nd day guys drafted during that time span? Round 6 QB's, which for some statistical anomoly come out very good. Abotu 1 in 5 will be successful, better then both the 4th and 5th rounds... and MUCH better then 7th and UDFA's... Romo didn't hit hte field for almost 4 years? We don't have that kind of time, we need to get better at the QB position, ASAP, and we need to hit on the guy. That to me is the new First day, or bust... IF we don't get one of the top handful of QB's i the draft we failed, MISERABLY.
    I dont doubt that we have made an investment in the O line already. My point is that investment has not lived up to their potential, IMO.

    I say you keep making that investment until it shows promise. If anything, a high draft pick of an O linemen gives up depth in a position that was plagued with injuries last year without a huge cap hit a top tier QB would garner.

    Im not saying we dont need help in other areas you mention. I agree with you there. What Im saying if we're starting fresh with a new system, QB search, etc, then it is crucial we have an effective line that gives good holes for McGahee AND provides our future QB with more time, allowing more options other then the dink-and-dunk crap we've seen for the past 4 years.
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  12. #27

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    Ozzie, you better have your draft shoes on, you're gonna need 'em!
    We have needs aplenty but limited resources. I would like to see some whacking of expensive deadwood (cut/retire Ogden, Flynn, McNair, Rolle, even Mason) to clear some cap space and trading down to get more players in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds. DE and CB should be our top priorities, via FA or a first day pick. I'm hoping that the combination of Yanda, Gaither & Terry would obviate the need for a first day OT selection. As to QB, I would like to see the Ravens select Woodson in the 2nd round or Flacco in the 3rd, if either were to fall that far.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  13. #28
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    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    would said "whacking of deadwood" help our cap space now? Those are big contracts, but my guess is they'd have some big cap hits this year (and possibly next year, depending on when we make the cuts).

    I agree, I'd like to see us keep getting younger...Flynn should've been gone years ago, now it's just a matter of finding when it's most profitable. JO, while it'd be morally uplifting to see him keep going at it, he's just not reliable anymore, and I think he should take the high road and go out with this being his last Pro Bowl. McNair is moreso obvious, though I think I'd like his humbled attitude and might look to see if his body is healed up. Because his attitude might bring out the best in him.

    Mason and Rolle I'm not so quick to say we cut. Until we have someone who can step up into Mason's role, if we dump him, our passing game becomes VERY vulnerable. Clayton and D-Wil are supposed to be big play threats, but they both had off years due to injuries and recoveries. DVD had a nice year, but I don't see him stepping up to be the dependant part of the passing game. Rolle, I'd like to see him reduce his salary and stay on...The guy showed this year he is a fighter and has the drive to stay in the NFL. That said, he has a big salary and is less valuable than CMac.

    Also, since this is his last year on his contract, what do we do with Ray Lewis? Most are in agreement he's reaching the twilight of his career, though many can argue he still plays at a high level. Do we give him his last payday, or let him go sign somewhere else and keep focusing on the future? That also should be considered in our draft plans...if we trade down, maybe pick up a high 2nd round pick and look for Ray's successor.
    .
    .
    “When I think of a Baltimore Raven - we go in there, we take your lunch box, we take your sandwich, we take your juice box, we take your applesauce, and we take your spork and we break it. And we leave you with an empty lunch. That’s the Baltimore Raven way.” - Steve Smith Sr.


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  14. #29

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fanatic View Post
    Regarding Yanda, his reach is what is in question here.
    Did he perform adequate in alot of games?
    Certainly but when you get to the next level (post season) he's basically playing nothing but the upper tier defensive ends.
    Quite frankly, you'll have to play several to even get to the post season.
    So by your logic, having somebody who is OK against a good deal of the league is OK, but having a key position on the O-line struggle protecting your QB against upper tier DEs is acceptable.

    And now you want to put a first round pick behind that?.
    He was a rookie, that played well and had ONE poor game. That's what I think about Yanda, I think he will get better. That is all above and beyond the fact that the scheme will undoubtedly be better, and playing more alongside similar people will make them better, I see each and every player getting better on an individual basis. The Unit as a whole, has no choice but to get better.
    And on top of that, I think throwing a "Cap Busting" first round pick into the mix doesn't help at all. If you actually want to improve the line today, then a Vet is the way to go. Trade for a Vet Center, if you truly want to imporve the line. I would not have an issue with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fanatic View Post
    The QB position is by far probably the toughest to pick and hit.

    I gave a few examples of guys picked in later rounds that have done well.
    Nowhere did I say they are sure things in the latter stages of the draft as most are not.

    You seem to think that we have to take a projected top tier QB in the early first round or this draft will be a failure.

    Maybe you should go back and review how successful those picks have been.
    You can start with one that's currently on our roster.

    The fact remains that the majority of QBs picked in the draft don't pan out the way they are projected for a variety of reasons, but you want to blow the cap on a high first round QB pick simply because he's projected as being a first rounder that will do well.
    Hell, alot of drafts none of the top QBs picked pan out at all.

    Regardless of where they take one if they do at all, he won't see the field in any meaningful playing time until the earliest being 2009.

    Exactly how long is your time line to reach success with your comment "We don't have that kind of time"?

    The game is won in the trenches, and those soldiers need to be able to take on all battles in order for just about any QB to have success.

    Yup, let's take a day one cap busting QB, put him back there and watch him get his brains busted out because our RT can't handle the elite pass rushers but is Ok with everybody else.

    Been there, done that already for too many years.

    I agree, and each round you wait it gets harder and harder... I'd like to be good in '09 or '10, not '15. If we are only going to draft late day guys, we won't be good until then. I without a doubt think the whole draft is a failure if we end up with a QB worse then John David Booty.
    Boller is a big reason I think we need to do that again. Upper first rounders hit mroe then 60% of the time, we are due.
    NO I want to take a QB early because we have a MAJOR dearth of talent at the most important position the game has. We have a top 10 pick which we hopefully won't have again, and Frankly, I think the top 2 guys Are as good of prospects as have been around in a few years. I know I liked Cutler more, but not Leinart or Young. Russell a bit more, Quinn less, Better then Smith and Rodgers...
    Beyond that, I think Henne, Flacco, Booty, and Woodson, all have a chance. At least a better chance then Troy Smith. I don't want any QB drafted on the field until '09.

    I agree the game is won in the trenches, that's why I've been so happy with the past few drafts. Again, if we can swing a trade for a solid Vet C, I'm in.

    Your cap comments are pointless, the Cap number for anyone selected at the #8 pick will be about $2m this year, independant of position.




  15. #30

    Re: Ravens 08 draft: Your thoughts....

    as far as DEs go...Jared Allen of KC is a free agent. How many DEs come in from the draft and make a big impact....few?

    But if a DE is the best player on the board at 8 they will prolly go down that road.

    FM




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