It is NOT the system!

**awalt** · 12-26-2007, 05:09 PM

This is a crazy thread.

It is exactly BECAUSE it's been 10 years that one can say for certainty that the system is at least partially, if not fully, to blame.

If his system is so intricate it needs such a unique set of players to pull off, it's a bad system.

If his system is not working because he has not had the right kind of offensive lineman, than that's his fault as coach, who has plenty of input on the types of players the team needs. If he wasn't getting any input on what kind of players he wanted, he would have quit.

If his system isn't working because of regular turnover of players, well guess what, that's a bad system too because in the NFL world of free agency that's a fact of life.

BB caught lightening in a bottle with the talent he had on the Vikings - that seems pretty clear now. We can also see the equation based on what the Patriots have done this year -- Moss is a pretty unique WR, if you have at least 1 WR who can make plays and keep defenses honest with Moss, a QB who can make plays, and a good OL, you set an all time scoring record. The Pats have shown you don't even really need a running game, the Vikes had one then.

I have to agree with Preston on this one - to say it's not the system at least in laarge part after 10 years is really being naive.

**camdenyard** · 12-26-2007, 05:26 PM

Awalt's post is the best one I've seen on this board in at least 2 months.

The man knows his football

**festivus** · 12-26-2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

Awalt's post is the best one I've seen on this board in at least 2 months.

The man knows his football

I dunno. Seems like a typical denial of the fact that the offense *has* had some decent years, and has seen a lot of changes in scheme as well. You can't tell me the offense we were running this year is the same as it was last year, or Jamal's 2000+ year, or Grbac's year. Those were different offensive schemes.

Anyway I have no problem trashing the offensive scheme with a new OC. I just think it's incorrect as a matter of fact to say the offense has been horrible the whole time Billick has been here. It is just plain wrong. It's been bad *most* of the time, which isn't good enough, but there are glaring absences on the offensive side of the ball that account for that, at least in part.

I am of the opinion that anyone stating an extreme opinion on this board, something like "X is because Y always Z," is normally wrong. I wonder if I should change the "normally" to "always." Hm.

Anyway, :2c:.

**Raven Nurse** · 12-26-2007, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

Houston Raven and Raven Nurse please take your short term memories somewhere else, please.

Thanks!

Good post TSpot!

Now take off your purple glasses. How did we fair with Jamal's big year? One and done? Dude, seriously, you think we have ever had an O under Billick....WTF...We have never been able to overcome a 14 point deficit due to our O. This is common knowledge...I was going to argue with you but damn.....this is common knowledge with every fact/ stat in the world backing me up!!! Question where was the offense ranked when Jamal had his big year....Just wanted to hear you say it....:insane:

**Dont Know** · 12-26-2007, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

We have never been able to overcome a 14 point deficit due to our O.

This isn't true, we overcame a 19 point deficit against the Titans last year (2006) with 2 McNair touchdowns and 2 fieldgoals.

While 19 points strictly speaking isn't 14, 19 > 14 so this should be applicable.

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by AZRAVEN

I believe it IS the system from this perspective. I am in total agreement that Billick has never had the correct personnel to implement his system effectively. Where he has failed so miserably IMO is that KNOWING he didn't have the personnel hasn't caused him to put his 10,000 play playbook aside until he does have the proper personnel and instead implementing SOME kind of system that will work with what he has. I realize it would be hard, considering our OL and WR's have sucked for years and we were "blessed" with RB's that didn't want to be here (Priest, Chester and Jamal all left because they were unhappy here) but that is his job and that is what successful head coaches have done over the years. It isn't always possible to have all the pieces needed. So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.

Sorry AZ, but your retort is wrong! He used a different way to control the ball other than short pass' when he first came to the Ravens...They have drafted more atheletic O-linemen in the past two years with Chester, Brown and Grubbs....He was starting to implement his true system these past two years and it was going to really get off the this year. Then the injuries to KEY players on the O-line, tight end, QB's and wideout positions with D. Williams..What is so hard about understanding this

He used Jamal Lewis as a ball control back to set up the pass with thos HUGE O-linemen.....You really don't get it do you:insane:

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by 4G63

Thats what good coaches do!......They make changes to compensate for lack of personnel on the field and use what you have to your advantage. Billick IMO has never done this.....

You my friend, are WRONG:insane:

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by festivus

In 2003 we had no passing game. So we ran the ball over and over and over and over and over again, all the way into the playoffs, with absolute *crap* for a passing attack. Not only did our scheme 'adapt', just as it had in '01 without Jamal, but the scheme made something where there easily could have been nothing.

The accusation that Billick has made no effort, or an ineffective effort, to adjust is not supported by the history of the team.

:2c:

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by awalt

This is a crazy thread.

It is exactly BECAUSE it's been 10 years that one can say for certainty that the system is at least partially, if not fully, to blame.

If his system is so intricate it needs such a unique set of players to pull off, it's a bad system.

If his system is not working because he has not had the right kind of offensive lineman, than that's his fault as coach, who has plenty of input on the types of players the team needs. If he wasn't getting any input on what kind of players he wanted, he would have quit.

If his system isn't working because of regular turnover of players, well guess what, that's a bad system too because in the NFL world of free agency that's a fact of life.

BB caught lightening in a bottle with the talent he had on the Vikings - that seems pretty clear now. We can also see the equation based on what the Patriots have done this year -- Moss is a pretty unique WR, if you have at least 1 WR who can make plays and keep defenses honest with Moss, a QB who can make plays, and a good OL, you set an all time scoring record. The Pats have shown you don't even really need a running game, the Vikes had one then.

I have to agree with Preston on this one - to say it's not the system at least in laarge part after 10 years is really being naive.

What a load

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

Now take off your purple glasses. How did we fair with Jamal's big year? One and done? Dude, seriously, you think we have ever had an O under Billick....WTF...We have never been able to overcome a 14 point deficit due to our O. This is common knowledge...I was going to argue with you but damn.....this is common knowledge with every fact/ stat in the world backing me up!!! Question where was the offense ranked when Jamal had his big year....Just wanted to hear you say it....:insane:

**Tspot-D-Ravenator** · 12-26-2007, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

My God, this may be the most utterly uninformed thread I've come across this season.

I love it when I hear people go on about the West Coast Offense as if it's some mystical thing that requires "specific players" and all this mumbo jumbo. It's NOT some fancy and complex "system". You all may as well be arguing it's the Tuesday night lasagna at training camp that should not be the blame for this season because they are about as equally non-relevant

Wake up and smell the proverbial coffee folks. All a WCO is a shift in emphasis! That's all. Nothing special. Instead of rushing to open up the options, WCO uses passing to open up the offense.

QB's still have to throw the ball. WR's still have to catch the ball. RB's still have to run the ball. Linemen still have to block. And the team still needs to NOT GET PENALTIES!

Now is you had said lets not blame the SCHEME maybe???

So yes, I agree. God help us, not matter what you do, dont blame the system. Let's also be sure to not blame global warming, abortion, gun control .....

Houston, your same old blabber bores me