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  1. #16

    Re: It is NOT the system!



    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    What team have you been watching? Because it hasnt been the Ravens. And what does "short term" mean? Because Im thinking about our offense since Billick got here.
    The Ravens. Which post have you been reading?

    The 'short term memory' thing was a suggestion that you are forgetting that, for '01, '03, and most of '06 we *did* have an effective offense, in '01 and '06 through the air. This was all the more remarkable in '01 and '03, when we had woeful shortcomings on that side of the ball, but somehow we won anyway.

    I don't really care where the offense ranks, as long as the team is winning. I am pretty sure the FO's philosophy is the same, which is why they have made historically such a lopsided investment in the team, though that's changing.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  2. #17
    Join Date
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    Houston, TX Y'all
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    27,506

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    The Ravens. Which post have you been reading?

    The 'short term memory' thing was a suggestion that you are forgetting that, for '01, '03, and most of '06 we *did* have an effective offense, in '01 and '06 through the air. This was all the more remarkable in '01 and '03, when we had woeful shortcomings on that side of the ball, but somehow we won anyway.

    I don't really care where the offense ranks, as long as the team is winning. I am pretty sure the FO's philosophy is the same, which is why they have made historically such a lopsided investment in the team, though that's changing.
    I see your point but isnt your definition of an "effective" offense really an offense that doesnt get in the way of winning?
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #18

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    No. It's an offense that does its part to contribute to winning.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  4. #19

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    I am a Billick siupporter, but please, if the last 9 years have proven anything it is that in any offense it is 90% players that determine success or failure.
    Ding Ding Ding!

    We have a winner.

    PP




  5. #20
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    I believe it IS the system from this perspective. I am in total agreement that Billick has never had the correct personnel to implement his system effectively. Where he has failed so miserably IMO is that KNOWING he didn't have the personnel hasn't caused him to put his 10,000 play playbook aside until he does have the proper personnel and instead implementing SOME kind of system that will work with what he has. I realize it would be hard, considering our OL and WR's have sucked for years and we were "blessed" with RB's that didn't want to be here (Priest, Chester and Jamal all left because they were unhappy here) but that is his job and that is what successful head coaches have done over the years. It isn't always possible to have all the pieces needed. So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.
    AZRAVEN

    [




  6. #21
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by AZRAVEN View Post
    I believe it IS the system from this perspective. I am in total agreement that Billick has never had the correct personnel to implement his system effectively. Where he has failed so miserably IMO is that KNOWING he didn't have the personnel hasn't caused him to put his 10,000 play playbook aside until he does have the proper personnel and instead implementing SOME kind of system that will work with what he has. I realize it would be hard, considering our OL and WR's have sucked for years and we were "blessed" with RB's that didn't want to be here (Priest, Chester and Jamal all left because they were unhappy here) but that is his job and that is what successful head coaches have done over the years. It isn't always possible to have all the pieces needed. So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.


    Thats what good coaches do!......They make changes to compensate for lack of personnel on the field and use what you have to your advantage. Billick IMO has never done this.....




  7. #22

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by AZRAVEN
    So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.
    Hmmm . . . I'm trying to figure out if I think that line is brilliant or just out of left field, but I like it.

    But I think I agree with the basic premise here, about working your system around what you have as a team. I actually think Billick has done that to some degree, but it could be better. After all, if you have exactly the personnel you want, coaching would be pretty easy.




  8. #23

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    In 2003 we had no passing game. So we ran the ball over and over and over and over and over again, all the way into the playoffs, with absolute *crap* for a passing attack. Not only did our scheme 'adapt', just as it had in '01 without Jamal, but the scheme made something where there easily could have been nothing.

    The accusation that Billick has made no effort, or an ineffective effort, to adjust is not supported by the history of the team.

    :2c:
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  9. #24

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    This is a crazy thread.

    It is exactly BECAUSE it's been 10 years that one can say for certainty that the system is at least partially, if not fully, to blame.

    If his system is so intricate it needs such a unique set of players to pull off, it's a bad system.

    If his system is not working because he has not had the right kind of offensive lineman, than that's his fault as coach, who has plenty of input on the types of players the team needs. If he wasn't getting any input on what kind of players he wanted, he would have quit.

    If his system isn't working because of regular turnover of players, well guess what, that's a bad system too because in the NFL world of free agency that's a fact of life.

    BB caught lightening in a bottle with the talent he had on the Vikings - that seems pretty clear now. We can also see the equation based on what the Patriots have done this year -- Moss is a pretty unique WR, if you have at least 1 WR who can make plays and keep defenses honest with Moss, a QB who can make plays, and a good OL, you set an all time scoring record. The Pats have shown you don't even really need a running game, the Vikes had one then.

    I have to agree with Preston on this one - to say it's not the system at least in laarge part after 10 years is really being naive.




  10. #25
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Awalt's post is the best one I've seen on this board in at least 2 months.

    The man knows his football


    WORLD CHAMPIONS 2000 * 2012




  11. #26

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    Awalt's post is the best one I've seen on this board in at least 2 months.

    The man knows his football
    I dunno. Seems like a typical denial of the fact that the offense *has* had some decent years, and has seen a lot of changes in scheme as well. You can't tell me the offense we were running this year is the same as it was last year, or Jamal's 2000+ year, or Grbac's year. Those were different offensive schemes.

    Anyway I have no problem trashing the offensive scheme with a new OC. I just think it's incorrect as a matter of fact to say the offense has been horrible the whole time Billick has been here. It is just plain wrong. It's been bad *most* of the time, which isn't good enough, but there are glaring absences on the offensive side of the ball that account for that, at least in part.

    I am of the opinion that anyone stating an extreme opinion on this board, something like "X is because Y always Z," is normally wrong. I wonder if I should change the "normally" to "always." Hm.

    Anyway, :2c:.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  12. #27

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Nurse View Post
    We have never been able to overcome a 14 point deficit due to our O.
    This isn't true, we overcame a 19 point deficit against the Titans last year (2006) with 2 McNair touchdowns and 2 fieldgoals.

    While 19 points strictly speaking isn't 14, 19 > 14 so this should be applicable.




  13. Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by AZRAVEN View Post
    I believe it IS the system from this perspective. I am in total agreement that Billick has never had the correct personnel to implement his system effectively. Where he has failed so miserably IMO is that KNOWING he didn't have the personnel hasn't caused him to put his 10,000 play playbook aside until he does have the proper personnel and instead implementing SOME kind of system that will work with what he has. I realize it would be hard, considering our OL and WR's have sucked for years and we were "blessed" with RB's that didn't want to be here (Priest, Chester and Jamal all left because they were unhappy here) but that is his job and that is what successful head coaches have done over the years. It isn't always possible to have all the pieces needed. So when life gives you lemons make lemonade or lemon pie don't try to make German chocolate or Bavarian tortes.
    Sorry AZ, but your retort is wrong! He used a different way to control the ball other than short pass' when he first came to the Ravens...They have drafted more atheletic O-linemen in the past two years with Chester, Brown and Grubbs....He was starting to implement his true system these past two years and it was going to really get off the this year. Then the injuries to KEY players on the O-line, tight end, QB's and wideout positions with D. Williams..What is so hard about understanding this He used Jamal Lewis as a ball control back to set up the pass with thos HUGE O-linemen.....You really don't get it do you




  14. Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post


    Thats what good coaches do!......They make changes to compensate for lack of personnel on the field and use what you have to your advantage. Billick IMO has never done this.....
    You my friend, are WRONG




  15. Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    In 2003 we had no passing game. So we ran the ball over and over and over and over and over again, all the way into the playoffs, with absolute *crap* for a passing attack. Not only did our scheme 'adapt', just as it had in '01 without Jamal, but the scheme made something where there easily could have been nothing.

    The accusation that Billick has made no effort, or an ineffective effort, to adjust is not supported by the history of the team.

    :2c:




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