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  1. #1

    It is NOT the system!



    I'm only going to expound on this once and then I am done with this issue....Brian Billick's REAL offensive system has NEVER been implemented with the Ravens until last year and it never fully developed last year either because it was new...Billick's offense is a hybrid of the Bill Walsh "West Coast Offense" which is a short pass oriented ball control offensive scheme...

    Since he's been with the Ravens, Brian has not been able to run this offense because he's had HUGE run blocking O-linemen which are NOT suitable for pass blocking, they can pass block, but they'd rather run block, it's in their nature. There are exceptions like J.O., who can get down field and pass block for screen plays, but average as a pocket pass blocker. Big men on the O-line are less agile and it's harder for a BIG man to back peddle for passing situations...Ever heard Jonathan Ogden whine because he wished we'd run the ball more? I have way too many times...So, Brian's made this offense a ball control offense by the running back setting up the pass. And by bringing in a new running back this year, it has struggled with it's identity...


    Billick's offense also uses the two tight end sets in which he can use one to chip block by helping pass or run block while the other can get out into the flats and get open for a pass up the middle. We haven't had Todd Heap and Daniel Wilcox almost all year to make this part of the offensive scheme...When we played the Patriots, you saw some of Billick's offense come to fruition..Wilcox got open for that touchdown and I saw quite a bit of line backer blocking that freed up (Willie) McGahee for some nice runs. They worked on those plays in the summer..They work if you have the men that have practiced them and are capable of doing them without flaw...

    For the last few years, we've been drafting more athletic O-linemen which are more suitable for pass blocking..This is also another reason for getting rid of Edwin Mulitalo; he's just not suitable for running out into coverage and creating a pocket that can move for screen passes, he's more of a mauler for running...Same with Mike Flynn. And J.O. is just not healthy enough because of his foot problem...We've been plugging in tackles, centers and gaurds for this entire year just to make a line, any line...But it just isn't working out because you need offensive linemen to be together for a while to be able to "click" together..You can't just plug in three or four rookie linemen and make the "West Coast Offense" work. Last year worked out because they implemented Steve McNair who has a knowledge of the "West Coast Offense" but they also used some of the plays Steve was comfortable in doing and the O-line was stable and injury free for the most part!

    This is what needs to happen now, we need to draft or pick up in free agency, a STARTING left tackle or center because Flynn and J.O. are done and I don't think Chester, Gaither or Terry are our future starters. Gaither should've been in his junior year at Maryland this year and he still has a year or two before he will become starting material in my opinion..They are adequate back-ups, but they have proven they can't do the job on a cosistent basis...There has been a lack of any kind of pocket for any QB to stay in. I don't follow just the ball and the players that are making the plays, I watch the line of scrimmage almost every play of every game and I am seriously concerned for any QB that is told to stay in the pocket and trust in the pocket, because there IS NO POCKET most of the time! I have my reserves about O-line coach Chris Foerester too..When he was at Miami, they had one of the worst O-lines in the league

    I end this post by saying, this is not rocket science it's just some facts...I am also a Minnesota fan too since childhood, and I saw Billick's offense make the Vikings one of the most prolific offense's in the modern NFL era..He helped make Randy Moss, Robert Smith, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Chris Carter..etc, into the players they became...Billick didn't make them the stars they became, but he used his offense and coaching skills to HELP make them who they were..They never made it to the Super Bowl because their defense wasn't up to par with their offense...I remember Brian Billick say, because of our AWESOME defense winning games and after going five games without a touch down and winning two of those games in our Super Bowl year, that he has done what he never wanted to do..."I have ventured over to the darkside"...Do you all remember that? We need to face the facts here: YOU CAN'T RUN BILLICK'S OFFENSE WITHOUT THE PLAYERS THAT CAN PERFORM THE PLAYS! I am not a Billick apologist, just a football fan who is tired of the endless bashing of a man that took our team to a Super Bowl and won it in a way he didn't want to in the first place! Now you all can have it!
    Last edited by Tspot-D-Ravenator; 12-26-2007 at 03:10 AM.




  2. #2
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    You're right, I even remember Willis telling me during a commercial break earlier this year that this was supposed to be a two TE/three WR offense from the start but they couldn't do any of that cause of the injuries they've had since the first game of the year.

    The only thing I disagree with you on is I think Terry can and will start at LT next season and be pretty good.




  3. #3
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tspot-D-Ravenator View Post
    I'm only going to expound on this once and then I am done with this issue....Brian Billick's REAL offensive system has NEVER been implemented with the Ravens until last year and it never fully developed last year either because it was new...Billick's offense is a hybrid of the Bill Walsh "West Coast Offense" which is a short pass oriented ball control offensive scheme...

    Brian has not been able to run this offense because he's had HUGE run blocking O-linemen which are NOT suitable for pass blocking, they can pass block, but they'd rather run block, it's in their nature. So Brian's made this offense a ball control offense by the running back setting up the pass and by bringing in a new running back this year, it has struggled with it's identity...Big men on the O-line are less agile and it's harder for a BIG man to back peddle for passing situations...Ever heard Jonathan Ogden whine because he wished we'd run the ball more? I have way too many times...

    Billick's offense also uses the two tight end sets in which he can use one to chip block by helping pass or run block while the other can get out into the flats and get open for a pass up the middle. We haven't had Todd Heap and Daniel Wilcox almost all year to make this part of the offensive scheme...When we played the Patriots, you saw some of Billick's offense come to fruition..Wilcox got open for that touchdown and I saw quite a bit of line backer blocking that freed up (Willie) McGahee for some nice runs. They worked on those plays in the summer..They work if you have the men that have practiced them and are capable of doing them without flaw...

    For the last few years, we've been drafting more athletic O-linemen which are more suitable for pass blocking..This is also another reason for getting rid of Edwin Mulitalo; he's just not suitable for running out into coverage and creating a pocket that can move for screen passes, he's more of a mauler for running...Same with Mike Flynn. And J.O. is just not healthy enough because of his foot problem...We've been plugging in tackles, centers and gaurds for this entire year just to make a line, any line...But it just isn't working out because you need offensive linemen to be together for a while to be able to "click" together..You can't just plug in three or four rookie linemen and make the "West Coast Offense" work. Last year worked out because they implemented Steve McNair who has a knowledge of the "West Coast Offense" but they also used some of the plays Steve was comfortable in doing and the O-line was stable and injury free for the most part!

    This is what needs to happen now, we need to draft or pick up in free agency, a STARTING left tackle or center because Flynn and J.O. are done and I don't think Chester, Gaither or Terry are our future starters. Gaither should've been in his junior year at Maryland this year and he still has a year or two before he will become starting material in my opinion..They are adequate back-ups, but they have proven they can't do the job on a cosistent basis...There has been a lack of any kind of pocket for any QB to stay in. I don't follow just the ball and the players that are making the plays, I watch the line of scrimmage almost every play of every game and I am seriously concerned for any QB that is told to stay in the pocket and trust in the pocket, because there IS NO POCKET most of the time! I have my reserves about O-line coach Chris Foerester too..When he was at Miami, they had one of the worst O-lines in the league

    I end this post by saying, this is not rocket science it's just some facts...I am also a Minnesota fan too since childhood, and I saw Billick's offense make the Vikings one of the most prolific offense's in the modern NFL era..He helped make Randy Moss, Robert Smith, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Chris Carter..etc, into the players they became...Billick didn't make them the stars they became, but he used his offense and coaching skills to HELP make them who they were..They never made it to the Super Bowl because their defense wasn't up to par with their offense...I remember Brian Billick say, because of our AWESOME defense winning games and after going five games without a touch down and winning two of those games in our Super Bowl year, that he has done what he never wanted to do..."I have ventured over to the darkside"...Do you all remember that? I am not a Billick apologist, just a football fan who is tired of the endless bashing of a man that took our team to a Super Bowl and won it in a way he didn't want to in the first place! Now you all can have it!
    I'm right there with you, Tspot. I have serious reservations about Foerster as well. When the Ravens hired him, my Dolphan husband said "I sure hope your front office knows what it's doing. That guy was the worst offensive line coach we have ever had. The line sucked when he was coaching it". And I agree with you that I'm sick of the anti-Billick hysteria that has been sweeping these boards. He bears responsibility for some of the things that have made this season into such a disaster, but he gets blamed for EVERYTHING, including the injuries.




  4. #4

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyMRaven View Post
    I'm right there with you, Tspot. I have serious reservations about Foerster as well. When the Ravens hired him, my Dolphan husband said "I sure hope your front office knows what it's doing. That guy was the worst offensive line coach we have ever had. The line sucked when he was coaching it". And I agree with you that I'm sick of the anti-Billick hysteria that has been sweeping these boards. He bears responsibility for some of the things that have made this season into such a disaster, but he gets blamed for EVERYTHING, including the injuries.
    And the anti-Billick hysteria will continue to go on, because of an un-named writer who hates the man...




  5. #5

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    It's not Anti-Billick hysteria, at least from my end.

    Sure there are a few holes we need filled, and have forever. A scary WR would help, so would a good offensive line (ask folks how long I've been begging for that one).

    There have been some mind-numbingly stupid decisions this year. The two times we had the ball in short yards late in a game and threw the dang thing are the most glaring in my mind. Ever notice everybody on the board can pick out which play is coming next? If we can, I promise you the DCs can. Billick calls the plays.

    Yes our offensive line is awful. Agent 6 and I started cussing the instant we hired the drooling butt-monkey Forester. He's more inept than Cavanaugh and that is an accomplishment. That falls on Billick though. The job isn't getting done, hold people accountable.

    Lack of talent at WR and OL I'll put on Ozzies head. They need to bring me in, give me a second rounder and a fourth rounder and I'll have them two starting quality linemen this year. Receivers... eh, I'm not so good at.

    There's plenty of blame to go around, yes. However the head coach is responsible for what's on the field. Last year we went 13-3 and Billick was in everybodys good graces. This year we're staring 4-12 right in the eye and he needs to be blamed for a large chunk of that.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock




  6. Re: It is NOT the system!

    Isnt a head coach suppose to make decisions and changes?? if his "system" needs TE's and WR's and we dont have any, why keep running the same offense? I understand you cant revamp a whole system during the system but maybe some changes! Ive always liked Billick til this year...now it just seems like its time for a change. He himself said coaches should last about 10years before they have run their course.

    His lack of clock managment, calling pass when you should run, and other absurdities have now run their course. Im done with him and want a change. You cant argue the fact that all this time the offense hasnt changed one bit with different players. So it is Billick IMO. Billick is the constant.
    Season ticket holder since 1996 Section 148 Tailgate Lot H
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  7. #7

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tspot-D-Ravenator View Post
    And the anti-Billick hysteria will continue to go on, because of an un-named writer who hates the man...
    I heard Mr. Un-named slagging all over Billick and the Ravens as a whole on Friday. What a jerk.




  8. #8
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    Houston, TX Y'all
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    My God, this may be the most utterly uninformed thread I've come across this season.

    I love it when I hear people go on about the West Coast Offense as if it's some mystical thing that requires "specific players" and all this mumbo jumbo. It's NOT some fancy and complex "system". You all may as well be arguing it's the Tuesday night lasagna at training camp that should not be the blame for this season because they are about as equally non-relevant

    Wake up and smell the proverbial coffee folks. All a WCO is a shift in emphasis! That's all. Nothing special. Instead of rushing to open up the options, WCO uses passing to open up the offense.

    QB's still have to throw the ball. WR's still have to catch the ball. RB's still have to run the ball. Linemen still have to block. And the team still needs to NOT GET PENALTIES!

    Now is you had said lets not blame the SCHEME maybe???

    So yes, I agree. God help us, not matter what you do, dont blame the system. Let's also be sure to not blame global warming, abortion, gun control .....
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #9
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Nurse View Post
    WOW!!! Eight years and he still has not been able to get it right!! I do not think you can say it is not the system after EIGHT!!!! FRICKIN!!! YEARS!!!!
    Agreed. After 8 years, a pro coach is supposed to have found a way to figure it out.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. Re: It is NOT the system!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Nurse View Post
    WOW!!! Eight years and he still has not been able to get it right!! I do not think you can say it is not the system after EIGHT!!!! FRICKIN!!! YEARS!!!!
    You my friend should read my post before you spill your hatered... You have your mind already made up....




  11. #11

    Re: It is NOT the system!

    We've had an effective offense here in Baltimore in the last nine years. Setting aside the year we had *only* a ground game and still made it to the playoffs, in 03, we had 01 with Grbac and last year with McNair. The wheels fell off the cart in week 16 last year, but I don't see how you can blame the system when the 'system' worked fine weeks 1 - 16 then suddenly McNair can't hit the broad side of a barn if it's more than 10 yards away.

    And with Grbac there was *nothing* wrong with our passing attack, we had other problems, but passing the ball was not one of them.

    Since 1999, until last year when finally we had all the pieces, our offense was put together out of popsicle sticks and chewing gum. Despite significant deficits in personnel for the passing game (most seasons) or the running game (2001) we have eked out a respectable few years.

    Houston Raven and Raven Nurse please take your short term memories somewhere else, please.

    Thanks!

    In general I agree with Darb, there is enough blame to go around, and BB bears some responsibility for the bad times and gets some credit for the good. On the one had, our offense has struggled for a lot of his tenure here, but on the other, most of the $$$ has been for defense, and a number of the high end offensive acquisitions (Searcy, Taylor, Boller, McNair from Bills game->), have not panned out as much as we'd have liked. It's not like Travis Taylor, or Qadry Ismail, etc. etc. left here and went straight to the Pro Bowl.

    Your point about the injuries is important, and particularly the point about needing 2 TEs.

    Really we were in deep doo doo when Pryce went down, and the whole thing just went further off the tracks from there.

    Good post TSpot!
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  12. #12
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    Re: It is NOT the system!

    had HUGE run blocking O-linemen which are NOT suitable for pass blocking, they can pass block, but they'd rather run block
    Who asked them what they would "rather do"?

    This is what needs to happen now, we need to draft or pick up in free agency, a STARTING left tackle or center because Flynn and J.O. are done and I don't think Chester, Gaither or Terry are our future starters... They are adequate back-ups, but they have proven they can't do the job on a cosistent basis...
    What has Gaither proven? Nothing, he has what, a grand total of 2-3 NFL games? JHC, you sound like the dudes who proclaim that Troy Smith can't be successful when he hasn't had a fair shot.

    I end this post by saying, this is not rocket science it's just some facts...I am also a Minnesota fan too since childhood, and I saw Billick's offense make the Vikings one of the most prolific offense's in the modern NFL era..He helped make Randy Moss, Robert Smith, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, Chris Carter..etc, into the players they became...Billick didn't make them the stars they became, but he used his offense and coaching skills to HELP make them who they were
    That team had success because the PLAYERS were OUTSTANDING, period. Funny with your rant about the Ravens O-line you conveniently leave out the fact that the Vikes' O-line was flat-out DOMINANT. Practically any OC could have done what Billick did with those weapons.

    I am a Billick siupporter, but please, if the last 9 years have proven anything it is that in any offense it is 90% players that determine success or failure.


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