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  1. #91

    Re: Grade Troy Smith



    But when a QB is running for his life behind poor pass protection, whether it's because of the players or the scheme, it's like being in a gunfight without having a gun that works. In other words --

    "Well, he should have armed himself!"

    (I'm clearly starting to strectch now, but I'm having fun with the Eastwood quotes).




  2. #92

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    The only real stretch there was the exclamation mark. Because no Clint Eastwood quote should *ever* have an exclamation mark.

    I bow to your superior quotography, sir. Enjoyed it very much.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  3. #93

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus
    The only real stretch there was the exclamation mark. Because no Clint Eastwood quote should *ever* have an exclamation mark.
    That's a valid point, but my recollection of that particular line is that was delivered with some energy, at least by Clint's standards. It's all relative -- a line delivered with some energy by Clint would be considered a whisper by Stephen A. Smith standards. I was considering the context.

    Well, that was a pleasant diversion -- exchanges of relevant Clint Eastwood movie quotes as it relates to the Ravens offense. Thanks for starting it, festivus!




  4. #94

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Glad to help, Highwater.

    It remains my life goal to keep this board from getting too heavy.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #95
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    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Smith goes 22/36 315 yds 3TD's 0 INT 6 carries 72 yds 1TD, Ravens win
    31-14 everyone will be posting in the Troy Smith Hero thread!
    Somebody got a new bong and a mess of good weed for Christmas.

    We need better QB play. Finding a great QB is VERY hard, building a very good OL is easier, which is what the Clowns have done. Very good OLs will make everybody better. We need to start there. We have a lot of young guys so I don't know how many new players we need there or how much more seasoning and gelling we need, but we NEED that.

    We should draft a QB next year and keep drafting one until we find a stud. We don't have one now, but at least Boller is competent when he has time, we can improve the time and improve our passing game immensely. I imagine Smith would look competent behind a very good OL as well.

    But hey, if all else fails maybe we can schedule all of those teams Smith beat in college the guy with the man-crush keeps posting about.




  6. #96

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    But hey, if all else fails maybe we can schedule all of those teams Smith beat in college the guy with the man-crush keeps posting about.
    Ha.

    This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

    People bringing up college games as basis for an argument for a player they like. Many QBs who beat great teams in college stink in the NFL and vice versa. Hell, take a look at Heisman winning QBs from the 90s until now. The majority of them didn't or haven't done squat in the NFL.

    And let's be honest. On the biggest stage of them all, Mr. Smith looked lost and outclassed.

    There are only a few exceptions to the rule.

    Vince Young's 2 Rose Bowl wins come to mind.

    PP




  7. #97
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    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Smith didn't have a lot to work with and I can cut him slack there, the same people giving him a break don't give Boller one. That is my pet peeve. If you give Boller plenty of time he is capable. I want more than capable but frankly, only about 6-8 teams TOPS have more than capable.

    Boller is still ranked around 17 this year even with our OL, a 3rd string TE and no real deep threat. His best weapons were Mason and DARLING!

    Anyway, finding that Brady is elusive, even a high pick for a guy like Manning or Palmer can lead to a Leaf, Smith, Couch, etc. We should keep picking QBs who are rated NFL capable and tossing them against the wall until one sticks as a stud. Might have to go through another dozen. In the meantime, we need some pass blocking.




  8. #98

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Smith didn't have a lot to work with and I can cut him slack there, the same people giving him a break don't give Boller one. That is my pet peeve. If you give Boller plenty of time he is capable. I want more than capable but frankly, only about 6-8 teams TOPS have more than capable.

    Boller is still ranked around 17 this year even with our OL, a 3rd string TE and no real deep threat. His best weapons were Mason and DARLING!

    Anyway, finding that Brady is elusive, even a high pick for a guy like Manning or Palmer can lead to a Leaf, Smith, Couch, etc. We should keep picking QBs who are rated NFL capable and tossing them against the wall until one sticks as a stud. Might have to go through another dozen. In the meantime, we need some pass blocking.
    I'll only say this.

    My point (for what seems like the 20th time) is that cutting a guy like Smith for his FIRST NFL start isn't exactly earth shattering. Do you think if Boller had started that we should expect him to play better than Smith? I do. And I think he would've. That's all. Nothing more. Im still dumbfounded how much flack that one statement created. It wasn't an indictment of either player really.

    Again, Ozzie has gotten a free pass over and over for the lack of offensive weapons on this team. Whether it be QB, OL, or Receivers.

    Im of the belief that we need better play from pretty much everyone. And IMO a new QB is at the forefront of that.

    It's really amazing that having that opinion can garner so much angst on this board.

    PP




  9. Re: Grade Troy Smith

    We need health. Injuries aren't an excuse it's the truth. Name any other NFL team that loses it's QB, LT, top reciever, top pass rusher, and top corner and still competes. -13 in the turnover diff. What more explanation do you need? Protect the ball, strip the ball. They were best at this in 06'.

    QB. Smith showed some nice things last week. He showed one thing that Boller hasn't ever shown and that's pocket presence. He also matched that big arm that we all want in a QB. All things considered facing a D with 5 Pro Bowlers. The big question is what to do with McNair? Is he done and do you draft a QB in the first round? Making Kyle the vet out a young threesome smells of rebuilding. Maybe it's what we need?

    OL. Ogden retires. Flynn retires. The line gets younger and more athletic. The one thing a line needs is consistency and time to gel. They haven't had any of that this season. They will be improved next year. Terry will be ok at LT but Ogden a HOF, so cut him some slack we've been spoiled.

    Receivers. Mason was a very good possesion reciever. Clayton, Heap, and DWill were injury plagued. Clayton's performance was most disappointing. If healthy you have a good group. Even Darling showed some flashes and hell, Figurs is fast.

    The D.
    Ray will be back again. Ray had some excellent games this year and hasn't looked slowed by age at all. Ngata and Gregg have been pro bowl caliber, esp. the Big Samoan. Trouble on the edges - No Pryce and Suggs was way down. Bart Scott was in pass coverage most of the year. This all leads to no rush. No rush leads to no sacks. No sacks led to no turnovers. I last checked I think the D ended up with half of their totals from 2006.
    Many are quick to blame the depleated secondary but, if you give any QB 6 seconds to scan the field, it's over.

    Coaching. Billick. I'll give this guy one more season to clean up the mess. He's earned it from me. Just watch the new 2000 playoffs DVD and see why he's earned it. I've heard a lot of media types from the Ravens Uncensored to the Sun call for his head. This guy is responsible for helping make this team a contender in the NFL. His brashness and arrogance were needed to make the next step.
    He's by no means been perfect. He's made some questionable calls and moves and he hasn't coached his best this year. But, he's earned one last shot to right the ship and if he can't let him go.
    Rex Ryan. I want the fat Rex, not the slim, "I want to be a head coach" Rex. He's one guy that has seemingly escaped everyone's wrath. Exotic blitzes. Ngata in the secondary. How ruthlessly absurd. Just line up and let them have at it. Don't pull a LaRussa and outhink yourself. Also, Rex nice move pulling Gaston last week. Pick on the rook. If his safety help were there like it should have been it would have been a non-issue. But, we can't sit Reed or any other defender that underachieved, so I'm sending a message. It's an empty one. Fix the D for next season.

    Beating the Steelers would help make things a little happier. You never know.




  10. #100
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    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Do you think if Boller had started that we should expect him to play better than Smith?
    Absolutely.

    He showed one thing that Boller hasn't ever shown and that's pocket presence.
    Oh bullcrap, first he got the ball knocked loose and lost a fumble while in the pocket, which isn't displaying some mystical pocket presence. Second, Boller at times has shown it and at others not, just like Smith.

    Unless McNair's arm magically gains zip there is little to no benefit to bringing him back next year. We can make that decision in training camp. We MUST DRAFT ANOTHER QB. If McNair shows some arm we can keep him and trade Boller for something (he is worth something, Atlanta probably would have given a mid rounder for him this pre-season after the Vick thing went down). If McNair has no arm left he is not better than Boller and only marginally better than Smith based solely on experience.

    Receivers. Mason was a very good possesion reciever. Clayton, Heap, and DWill were injury plagued. Clayton's performance was most disappointing. If healthy you have a good group. Even Darling showed some flashes and hell, Figurs is fast.
    Two things will make our QBs better right off the bat, more time and a real threat down the field like a Moss, Owens or even Braylon "cement hands" Edwards. He drops more than he should but he is a legitimate deep threat on each and every down as opposed to D Williams who is a third guy. Darling is a 5th WR, maybe 4. He shouldn't be counted on for anything. If Sams comes back Figurs is gone.




  11. #101
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    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Beating the Steelers would "make my day", and, year, as far as that goes!
    "Grab those pusillanimous sons-a-bitches by the nose and kick 'em in the balls.." General George S. Patton




  12. #102

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Oh bullcrap, first he got the ball knocked loose and lost a fumble while in the pocket, which isn't displaying some mystical pocket presence. Second, Boller at times has shown it and at others not, just like Smith.
    God damn greg, why dont you give Smith some slack. He aint nothing but a 5th round pick, 3rd string qb. Comparing him to boo-ller is almost impossible because there is hardly any game data. Sorry but The guy had one turnover, thats not the end of the world at this point in his career. I like what I saw considering the score and circumstance.

    Those who are not grading him sure are being tough on him, keep in mind that thats all in the name of being fair to Troy. Thats bullcrap. Some of you are steamrolling over this guy after one game, and its all to protect the good name of Kyle Boo-ller. And the thing is nobody really cares if he starts or not at this point.

    Some of you guys do this with every qb not named Boo-ller. Mcnair was fine last year. Even when we were winning some of you were yearning for Kyle. Why? Nobody knows. The guy hasnt won a road game in YEARS. Where are the people who say Boo-ller is a top 5 back up now? I'll grant you that he may be a good start against a team like the Jets at home but after that I'm scared to death of whats going to happen. YOU ARE TOO.

    THIS YEAR MCNAIR WAS INJURED FROM THE GET GO. We had success with him last year. The system was fine last year when you were waving those white raven towels in playoff game last season. If he is able to go, we use him Period.

    This season sucks because we have two incompetent QBs, the thing is one of them only started one game. Yea sure there are injuries to alot of positions but the focus is always squarely on the QB, Thats just the way it goes. Not even Kyle boo-ller would make excuses yet most on this board invent ways to protect him.

    Let the kid play for godsakes.
    Last edited by crazyraven; 12-27-2007 at 01:35 PM.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
    _________________
    -->^78F$09U&67D!45A#54R87B)89V<--




  13. #103
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    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    . . . why dont you give Smith some slack. He aint nothing but a 5th round pick, 3rd string qb.
    And I wasn't picking on him, I was pointing out that he didn't perform in some magical fashion beyond what the rest of the guys coming through here have done.

    Comparing him to boo-ller is almost impossible because there is hardly any game data.
    Granted, BUT I WAS RESPONDING TO A COMPARISON.

    I am not trying to protect Boller, the deal is we need three things to improve our offense and one of them is better QB play. We can get that with any of the guys we have with better pass protection and a real deep threat. I also support drafting a QB and bringing McNair back next training camp and seeing what we have.

    If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up. We at least have found out Smith can competently play the position at this point, so we aren't desperate for competent QBing at either the starting or backup position. We need to draft a guy, and as I posted above, KEEP DRAFTING QBs until we finally get our stud QB. I have posted this since 2000. We should keep drafting QBs where we think there is value, whether that be in round 1, 3 or 6, until we finally hit pay dirt in a big way.

    Oh, and who knows, maybe Smith blows up and becomes that guy, but as a team the Ravens should not count on that. Until somebody PROVES they are THE MAN we should draft QB every single year.




  14. #104
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    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post

    I am not trying to protect Boller, the deal is we need three things to improve our offense and one of them is better QB play. We can get that with any of the guys we have with better pass protection and a real deep threat. I also support drafting a QB and bringing McNair back next training camp and seeing what we have.

    If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up. We at least have found out Smith can competently play the position at this point, so we aren't desperate for competent QBing at either the starting or backup position. We need to draft a guy, and as I posted above, KEEP DRAFTING QBs until we finally get our stud QB. I have posted this since 2000. We should keep drafting QBs where we think there is value, whether that be in round 1, 3 or 6, until we finally hit pay dirt in a big way.

    Oh, and who knows, maybe Smith blows up and becomes that guy, but as a team the Ravens should not count on that. Until somebody PROVES they are THE MAN we should draft QB every single year.
    Good post Greg! I usually don't agree with anything you type but what you said really makes sense in the long run, as long as there isn't a better option in the 4th, 5th, or 6th round. You never know when you might get the next Tom Brady in the 5th or 6th round......




  15. #105

    Re: Grade Troy Smith

    If McNair gets his arm back, and I doubt it but who knows, he is worth keeping. If not, Boller is our next best option to win games with Smith backing him up.
    If Mcnair is back and injury free, I suspect Boller is a goner. I really cant see this continuing for Kyle, the organization, and the fans. Its just not working out. If we know the situation of Mcnair in March, Hopefully the ravens will make an informed decision and bring in a prove FA QB who can learn the system and come in ASAP to help. If the FO waits till june we will be in the same situation as we are in every year and have to rely on Kyle if things go south. We've been there and done that, and its been a rocky road to say the least.

    Good post Greg! I usually don't agree with anything you type but what you said really makes sense in the long run, as long as there isn't a better option in the 4th, 5th, or 6th round. You never know when you might get the next Tom Brady in the 5th or 6th round......
    I'm curious, With this type of thinking, why are you so quick to find someone else. The ravens just picked up troy in the 5th round, have you dismissed him before he even gets a chance? Do you not think he will pan out? If a qb is picked up in next years draft and gets he gets a shot at another playoff bound team (like the hawks) and has a horrible outing are you going back to the drawing board again? It doesn't make sense.
    WOW! I feel so fortunate that the Ravens did what they had to do to make this happen. Thank you. My Heart is with the Raven....My Heart is with Baltimore and its great fans. What can I say. Here We Go!!! --Ray Lewis
    No, Thank you Ray...
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