Time management-Attn. Ravens

**crazyraven** · 08-21-2006, 12:58 PM

What good would a first down be with 10 seconds (or less) left on the clock?

Unless this rule has change, when the clock is under two minutes and a first down is made by the offense the clock stops for the officials to set the ball then starts again when the ref sets the ball and the ref is off the line of scrimmage. With that thinking the the FG unit comes on the field and gets the FG try as soon as the clock starts rolling again. That's what a first down would have gave the ravens instead of the ref sitting in the middle of the line of scrimmage as the time ticked off.

**Mobtown** · 08-21-2006, 01:14 PM

At the same time, if we scored a FG, which we should have, then we would not be having this conversation. We we're ready to kick a FG, with a good 3 seconds left. That's all I'm saying; we we're ready.

Unless this rule has change, when the clock is under two minutes and a first down is made by the offense the clock stops for the officials to set the ball then starts again when the ref sets the ball and the ref is off the line of scrimmage. With that thinking the the FG unit comes on the field and gets the FG try as soon as the clock starts rolling again. That's what a first down would have gave the ravens instead of the ref sitting in the middle of the line of scrimmage as the time ticked off.

I hear what you guys are saying...but I don't think you are hearing me.

A good coach/team doesn't leave it up to the refs.

**StingerNLG** · 08-21-2006, 01:45 PM

I'm not sure about that, again if he scores or gets the first down we aren't having this conversation. The field goal unit was ready. If everything was textbook playbook calling this wouldn't be a very exciting league.

I hear you. But I'm sort of yes and no on that. Because on that run the clock is still ticking. I'm with Mobtown, why give the refs the chance to screw anything up. Throw the ball, or run to the side and try to bounce out and out of bounds to stop the clock. Stopping the clock should have been the priority on that play, not a run up the middle.

Thankfully, it is preseason, so you learn from that.

**Ravenatic20** · 08-21-2006, 03:30 PM

This article pretty much sums it up:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/...e.jsp?id=11791

**Losac** · 08-21-2006, 03:49 PM

Basically, here are the rules Brian Billick and his coaches follow when presented with these types of opportunities. With no timeouts and 18 to 20 seconds left on the clock, you can execute a running play and still kick a field goal. With no timeouts and 10 seconds remaining, you can try a throw to the end zone and still kick the field goal if the pass is incomplete.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this at all. And if Billick will continue to follow these "rules", then we are in for some frustrating ends to games or halfs.

**GreenWave52** · 08-21-2006, 03:52 PM

Ravenatic20, thanks for the link. Below are the 2 paragraphs that I thought were most relevant:

On the sideline, Matt Stover and the field goal team waited to sprint to the line of scrimmage and attempt a field goal. If Musa gained the first down, Steve McNair would spike the ball, and the Ravens would be able to try a throw into the end zone before Stover's group would come out for the attempt. When Smith didn't make the first down, Stover and Co. sprinted to the line of scrimmage for the kick. The half expired before the Ravens got off the field goal attempt.

"You can try a throw to the end zone with 8 seconds on the clock, but you put the quarterback in a tough situation. We could try a pass with 8 or 9 seconds on the clock, depending on the situation - who you are playing, weather, where you are playing and who's in the game," Billick explained. The NFL has decided that if there is five seconds on the clock, and you attempt an end zone throw and it's incomplete, the game or half ends.

I still don't know if Musa had gotten the first down there would have been enough time on the clock to: Line everyone up and spike the ball. Then attempt a pass. Then attempt a FG. I kind of think Billick may be outsmarting himself and trying to do to much.

**crazyraven** · 08-21-2006, 04:21 PM

in the article stover says that the ref put in the kicking ball when they werent suppose to.

"The referees switched the balls," said kicker Matt Stover. "In that situation, they just need to leave what was there on third down and put it in there because it was a time sensitive situation."

I'm not certain if by the letter of the law this is true but Stover seems to know his stuff so I'll trust him here. Had the refs not screwed around with trying to get a special ball on the field Stover nails the kick.

Refs make bad plays too and they should be held accountable. Thank god this is preseason and not a real game.

**Losac** · 08-21-2006, 04:23 PM

Refs make bad plays too and they should be held accountable. Thank god this is preseason and not a real game.

That's the problem. Billick practices this with the team and would do it in a regular season game in a second. It's stupid and risky and Billick of all people should know you never count on the refs for anything.

**Mobtown** · 08-21-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by crazyraven

in the article stover says that the ref put in the kicking ball when they werent suppose to.

I'm not certain if by the letter of the law this is true but Stover seems to know his stuff so I'll trust him here. Had the refs not screwed around with trying to get a special ball on the field Stover nails the kick.

Refs make bad plays too and they should be held accountable. Thank god this is preseason and not a real game.

If this were a real game we would have lost the points (and maybe the game) just like we did in preseason. When was the last time you remember hearing about the NFL putting points on the board (or even admitting a mistake) after the fact?

It just doesn't happen.

Knowing this, why leave it in the refs hands?

If the Ravens are faced with this scenario agaisnt the Stealers (down by 7, 18 or 19 seconds on the 2nd hald game clock) and we win, we can all look back and say how foolish we were to ever doubt them. But right now, today, in the scenario we just faced...it was a fools decision.

**DrUnk** · 08-21-2006, 04:33 PM

Ask Mike Holmgren about leaving the game in the refs hands.

**StingerNLG** · 08-21-2006, 04:39 PM

Knowing this, why leave it in the refs hands?

I think that is the key question. I agree 100% with Crazy that the refs should be held accountable for their mistakes. But at the same time when you are 20 seconds from the half with no timeouts there should be no way you risk getting down so far that the refs could make a mistake like that. It didn't even have to be an endzone throw. Throw a 6-7 yard out pattern to the sideline and let Heap or Clayton catch the ball and step out. Even if they don't catch the ball you've stopped the clock.

There are just too many other feasable possibilities to get that field goal other than a run up the middle. It's not even the run that gets me. It's running up the middle with no chance to stop the clock.

If it was a regular season game, and we lost by 3 points, wouldn't be a bigger deal than it is now?