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  1. #25
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    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?



    Quote Originally Posted by RavenFanatic2k6 View Post
    He's not your normal 5th round pick. About everyone will tell you he fell for two reasons, one, the major one, his height, and two, his performance in the title game.

    The season is over. You are absolutely right, the time is to evaluate, which is the exact reason that Smith should be starting. Everyone knows what Boller is, starting him three more games will change nothing moving forward.
    I don't necessarily think Smith should start, but he should know ahead of time that he's going to start the second half. Boller would know this too, so it would be to his advantage if he comes out and plays a good first half of the remaining games.

    Its about the unknown with Smith, whether he has the tools or not. I think that letting him start the second half off all the remaining games will let everyone know, including the front office, what he's got to offer.....




  2. #26

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    I don't necessarily think Smith should start, but he should know ahead of time that he's going to start the second half. Boller would know this too, so it would be to his advantage if he comes out and plays a good first half of the remaining games.

    Its about the unknown with Smith, whether he has the tools or not. I think that letting him start the second half off all the remaining games will let everyone know, including the front office, what he's got to offer.....
    It's like playing golf.... do you want to play at Augusta if you only know how to hit a sand wedge? Or do you want to wait a year, learn how to use all of your clubs, and then play there?




  3. #27
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    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Personally, I'd play Augusta if I could only carry my clubs just for the sheer joy of being there!
    AZRAVEN

    [




  4. #28
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    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    It's like playing golf.... do you want to play at Augusta if you only know how to hit a sand wedge? Or do you want to wait a year, learn how to use all of your clubs, and then play there?
    Thats like saying Smith can only do a shovel pass and it doesn't make any sense in this argument. I see what you are trying to say, but I think you're missing the point......since you're into golf, I'll put it to you like this: I'd like to know whether Troy Smith is a Tiger Woods, Sergio Garcia, Ernie Els, or a Briny Baird. If you check HERE, you'll see what I'm getting at.....that we know he can play football, but how well at the professional level?!?....

    FYI, I'd play Augusta or Pebble Beach or Congressional or any one of those top courses, and I stink at Golf. But I wouldn't know how I'd do unless I actually played the course......




  5. #29

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    To the people who are comparing starting Troy Smith on Sunday to rushing Boller and starting him as a rookie.....GIVE ME A BREAK.

    The situations are so far from similar that even bringing that up is ridiculous.

    First of all. Kyle Boller held out of camp in 2003.

    This team was primed to make what some people said a Super Bowl run and Boller was thrown in as a rookie to be the QB for the team. That pressure is exponentially higher than starting Troy Smith when we're 4-9 almost through a ruined season.

    How can it be that you would think that this compares to what Boller went through as a rookie?

    I don't care either way if Troy Smith or Kyle Boller plays on Sunday. It's a non issue anyway. Boller is starting.

    But to say that starting Smith would somehow equate to scarring him like we did Boller is ludicrous.

    Starting as a rookie on a team that has Super Bowl aspirations and starting game 14 as a rookie on 4-9 team is so different in every facet that Im still shaking my head that it was even brought up.

    PP

    PP, nobody is comparing Smith we're Boller. We're comparing him to EVERY FREAKING GOOD QB IN THE GAME NOT NAMED PEYTON MANNING.


    How you can't see how Tom Brady, Tony Romo, shit even Derek Anderson benefitted from not playing in their 1st year or two is ludacris. Shit even our very own Johnny Unitas had to get cut after being drafted late in the draft, season himself up with a minor league Pittsburg team, and then get in with the Colts to get it together.


    IMHO, if you want Troy Smith to be the guy, and you're not a retard, and you see how other successful QBs have developed, ESPECIALLY late round and undrafted talent, then you don't need to rush him this year.


    But of course, lets just scream LALALA and ignore the fact that other than one other top QB, most other QBs sit their first year.


    But honestly, everyone has an agenda, and if your agenda is to see Troy Smith for your own personal enjoyment, then obviously you can ignore the very large data set that says young QBs need to sit.


    When I think of the young QBs recently that have been busts, including Boller, they all have one thing in common: they all start their 1st years and never recover.




  6. #30

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Its about the unknown with Smith, whether he has the tools or not. I think that letting him start the second half off all the remaining games will let everyone know, including the front office, what he's got to offer.....

    What tools? Such generalities bother me.


    You can teach a lot to a QB. Look at a Tony Romo or a Tom Brady. Guys who teams passes over who took some time to hold a Clipboard and learn. And then suddenly, they're good.


    Why is that?


    I would guess that Bellicheck's coaching and efforts of a dedicated Cowboys coaching staff including Parcells, Sean Payton, etc helped a lot.


    What also helps is worrying about learning rather than worrying about being in the spotlight, dealing with the media, worrying about W's and L's rather than your mechanics, your reads, etc.


    I think its honestly better for a QB to sit and learn "the tools". I dont think you're going to know if Troy Smith has "the tools" unless you give him a fair chance to learn them.




  7. #31

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Thank you PP and ExtraPoint.

    A.) Different situations, completely...

    B.) Boller was a 1st round pick, and told he was our QB of the future. Troy is a 5th rounder, and wasn't hailed as "the one".

    C.) Why play in the NFL if you're afraid of getting your confidence beaten? How the hell can you get confidence until you go out there and do it? Football isn't a classroom activity, you can't get a degree and be a certified QB. You need to go out there, get your ass kicked a few times, and learn to hone your instincts and play football. If you can't handle the game, don't play. I certainly don't want a QB playing for us that is going to get his confidence ruined by starting for a 4-9 team.

    D.) I don't care who starts really, but I'd prefer Smith, just to see IF he can even be successful. I don't even think he's our QB of the future at all. But I've just seen enough of Boller, and we all know what type of QB he is. He's had enough "reps". There's nothing to lose starting Troy for a few times this season. And there's nothing to gain by starting Boller the rest of the season...
    Last edited by copenhaggard; 12-14-2007 at 04:10 PM.
    Season over, guess I'll have to start drinking beer again...




  8. #32

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by copenhaggard View Post
    Thank you PP and ExtraPoint.

    A.) Different situations, completely...

    B.) Boller was a 1st round pick, and told he was our QB of the future. Troy is a 5th rounder, and wasn't hailed as "the one".
    This isn't a Kyle Boller thing. This is an every QB in the league right now thing.

    Good quaterbacks / starters who sat at their 1st year: Brady, Romo, Anderson, Palmer, Cutler (majorify of his 1st year), Rivers, Russell is sitting, Clemens, Garrard, Schaub, Hasselbeck, Warner, Delhomme, Kitna, Jackson, Eli Manning, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, J. Cambell


    Good QBs who started quickly: Peyton Manning, Rothlesberger (tried to sit him, we knocked out Maddox), Favre, Brees, McNabb


    Possible Bust / Bust Qbs who all started their 1st year: Leftwich, Grossman, Boller, Harrington, Losman, Carr, Lineart, Alex Smith


    Guys who got the start their 1st year and look possible worse for wear:
    V. Young, Jon Beck?



    The fact that NFL QBs who sit seem to look better on average than those who start within their 1st year isn't something i think is made up.


    Of the successful guys, a lot are 2nd round and later picks who didn't have the pressure of starting and were given the time to focus on learning.


    C.) Why play in the NFL if you're afraid of getting your confidence beaten? How the hell can you get confidence until you go out there and do it? Football isn't a classroom activity, you can't get a degree and be a certified QB. You need to go out there, get your ass kicked a few times, and learn to hone your instincts and play football. If you can't handle the game, don't play. I certainly don't want a QB playing for us that is going to get his confidence ruined by starting for a 4-9 team.

    Its not about Troy Smith being afraid, its about giving him time to learn without the pressures of being starting QB, and having idiots like Mike Preston talking all kinds of nonsense about you. He should focus on getting the X's and O's of our shitty system down.


    D.) I don't care who starts really, but I'd prefer Smith, just to see IF he can even be successful. I don't even think he's our QB of the future at all. But I've just seen enough of Boller, and we all know what type of QB he is. He's had enough "reps". There's nothing to lose starting Troy for a few times this season. And there's nothing to gain by starting Boller the rest of the season...

    And again, there it is. Because the fans don't care and want a change for the sake of change, lets not care if starting him now is probably a negative and not a positive. Lets fire Billick now because anything is better. Because after all, these last 3 games are about entertaining us, the fans, now and not about the future of this team.
    Last edited by ClericBlackDave; 12-14-2007 at 05:00 PM.




  9. #33

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave View Post
    PP, nobody is comparing Smith we're Boller. We're comparing him to EVERY FREAKING GOOD QB IN THE GAME NOT NAMED PEYTON MANNING.


    How you can't see how Tom Brady, Tony Romo, shit even Derek Anderson benefitted from not playing in their 1st year or two is ludacris. Shit even our very own Johnny Unitas had to get cut after being drafted late in the draft, season himself up with a minor league Pittsburg team, and then get in with the Colts to get it together.


    IMHO, if you want Troy Smith to be the guy, and you're not a retard, and you see how other successful QBs have developed, ESPECIALLY late round and undrafted talent, then you don't need to rush him this year.


    But of course, lets just scream LALALA and ignore the fact that other than one other top QB, most other QBs sit their first year.


    But honestly, everyone has an agenda, and if your agenda is to see Troy Smith for your own personal enjoyment, then obviously you can ignore the very large data set that says young QBs need to sit.


    When I think of the young QBs recently that have been busts, including Boller, they all have one thing in common: they all start their 1st years and never recover.
    People certainly are comparing in the sense of rushing both QBs. If you can't see the difference between starting Boller out of the gate after holding out on a team poised for a playoff run as opposed to starting Troy Smith on a team that's 4-9, then let me know what world you're living in.

    I believe rookie QBs should absolutely sit at the beginning of a season. All teams start 0-0 with aspirations to make the playoffs. After 13 games, that dream is over.

    Why can't you see THAT difference?

    What agenda are you talking about?

    Do you even read my posts?

    Here is what I said in my original post on this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    I don't care either way if Troy Smith or Kyle Boller plays on Sunday
    Do you see an agenda there?

    Im just pointing out enormous holes in yet another one of your attempts to discuss the Ravens QB situation.

    You're comparing giving Troy Smith a start for a 4-9 Ravens team to having rookie QBs sit at the beginning of seasons. It's not comparable. If this were week 1, then it would be.

    Im not really sure why I respond to you considering the crap you've spewed on this board about this topic. Now that you see that our offense still stinks with Boller you have deflected the blame once again. It's old and tired.

    Believe me Dave, Im not a "retard" (nice btw). Im fully aware of the benefits of giving a rookie QB time on the sidelines to absorb the NFL game. Im also aware that when a team falls to 4-9 and has seen the piss poor QB play this team has seen, starting Smith in game 14 isn't even comparable to starting a guy from day one out of training camp.

    The expectation level and the amount of pressure is so much lower that it's hard to put into words.

    But Im not expecting you to comprehend that.

    PP




  10. #34

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    The expectation level might be lower, but nobody wants to play shitty for a shitty team in their first NFL go around. If you want him to succeed, you put him in a position to do so. You dont' set him up for automatic failure, which is what starting him now would do.

    Believe it or not, the players and coaches still want to win games.




  11. #35

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensNTerps View Post
    The expectation level might be lower, but nobody wants to play shitty for a shitty team in their first NFL go around. If you want him to succeed, you put him in a position to do so. You dont' set him up for automatic failure, which is what starting him now would do.

    Believe it or not, the players and coaches still want to win games.
    If Troy were even to start, I am sure he'd be put into a position to succeed. I don't understand how we'd be setting him up for automatic failure. Setting him up for automatic failure would be putting unrealistic expectations on him, or putting a ton of pressure on him. At this point of the season, there wouldn't be a lot of pressure / expectations, especially at the point this team is at.

    Besides, in the case of a lot of top QBs, they've had to start for bad teams, and bring them out of the cellar.
    Season over, guess I'll have to start drinking beer again...




  12. #36

    Re: Why do people want to start Troy Smith?

    I would like T. Smith to play only because we need to find out where we stand early next year. Here are some questions I want answered:

    1. What is the status with S. McNair? Is he coming back or not? Can he do it anymore or is he going to fumble 50 times? Can he throw a ball more than 15 yards?

    2. K. Boller is signed for one more year. Will we keep him after next year or not? Do we need to draft another QB or not?

    3. What is the ultimate goal of the team in keeping T. Smith? Is he our future, or our future backup?

    4. Is the team going to have 4 or 5 QB's in Training camp next year? Who will be the next victum snatched away from us when we are trying to get someone to clear waivers?

    This is a period of evaluation, a pre-season before the pre-season. Use the time wisely and forget about trying to win the next 3 games. People, the season is over!!!!




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