OT / Mitchell Report in the hands of Selig

**Raven Nurse** · 12-13-2007, 05:25 PM

Where was Boog's, Brooks, Cal, and Frank Robinson's names? Oops, wrong era, they did not play in the steroid era. Maybe I will read Cansco's book that a lot of people blew off because he was out to make a buck. Maybe there was more than a little truth to that book.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-13-2007, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Raven Nurse

Where was Boog's, Brooks, Cal, and Frank Robinson's names? Oops, wrong era, they did not play in the steroid era. Maybe I will read Cansco's book that a lot of people blew off because he was out to make a buck. Maybe there was more than a little truth to that book.

Game of Shadows is a far better book than Canseco's. His is filled with a bunch of hate for some people while Shadows has a ton of fact to back up the claims.

**highwater** · 12-14-2007, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Game of Shadows is a far better book than Canseco's.

No doubt about that, but this Mitchell report (and I have no plans to read the whole thing) seems to be pretty thorough. The detailed revelations about Clemens are interesting, seeing as they came straight from his trainer. I think he will and should be seen in a different light after this.

**Mr OC** · 12-14-2007, 11:12 AM

Seems to me that Clemens' accomplishments in these last few years would now warrant an asterisk just like Bonds'. Sad really.

**BertJonesMyHero** · 12-14-2007, 07:16 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong(and I may be) but I think Brady was not on the list. He was wrongfully accused on the internet. That is the bad side of the net.

Like he said, why didn't I hit 50 the following year?

**Galen Sevinne** · 12-14-2007, 10:11 PM

**awalt** · 12-15-2007, 02:43 PM

Most people are missing a few points IMHO:

1. Steroids have been a problem in US pro sports for a while. NFL tests for them, and did before baseball, but baseball has tested for them since about 2003. But before anyone says how clean NFL is compared to MLB, neither one tests for human growth hormone, because you really can't without a blood test. So rest assured abuse and cheating is rampant and will continue in both leagues.

2. NFL is not very clean either when guys like Shawn Merriman are caught cheating, admit it, and 6 months later no fan cares. The passion seems to be higher in baseball, while guys like McGwire have been totally outcast, and other than our own eyes there is no evidence against him at all.

3. As much as I think Clemens is an abuser because I see the bulk with my own eyes and I see the 45 year old still playing, if you think about it he has been named by one guy, with a questionable reputation, outside a court of law, without oath. If that happened to someone you know or love you would scream bloody murder, and scream "bring it to trial" to fight for their reputation. Clemens could be significantly damaged by this in many ways financial and otherwise, and I don't think most rational people would say that's right. Which leads me to point 4...

4. The Mitchell report unfortunately had to name names in order to establish the point the problem is widespread, but the "evidence" against many wouldn't hold up for 2 seconds in a court of law, and the names are a random consequence of the few that talked to the Mitchell commission. These players named may lose a lot due to being mentioned, and maybe never did anything. (One guy has since come out and said he bought steroids once, it came with a tube of testosterone, that scared him, he talked with his wife and threw the whole thing out.)

While others abused like crazy and weren't mentioned. I think this is why Mitchell basically said "there is a rampant problem, everyone is culpable, clean it up now, and don't discipline those in the past unless you really get some hard evidence". He knows naming names and getting testimony outside of a court of law is flimsy and won't hold up for discipline, and pursuing discipline will likely slow down progress and hurt innocent people.

5. If Selig and Fehr are smart, they will move ahead and clean it up. If they are dumb, Selig presses for discipline, Fehr digs his heels in, and nothing gets done. The one thing that will break this impasse is that both have to testify in front of Congress in January. Congress will demand a plan or threaten to pull the anti-trust exemption, just you watch (they were the reason the first and second drug testing plan got implemented).

**camdenyard** · 12-15-2007, 03:46 PM

Seriously, is ANYONE surprised Clemens is a 'roid user?

Him going nuclear against Piazza makes sense now.

**ravenwoman** · 12-17-2007, 02:37 PM

This is a baseball thread. This should be moved.

**highwater** · 12-17-2007, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

Seriously, is ANYONE surprised Clemens is a 'roid user?

Somebody might be surprised, but they shouldn't be. After a few subpar years in Boston, he suddenly had an unexpected late career upswing, unusual for someone his age, sort of like that guy in San Francisco -- what's his name?

I'm glad he got outed.